Trying it from the other side
Thread Closed 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
25-12-2012, 06:26 PM
Trying it from the other side
Hey

I simply am completely unable to understand how Christians can be the way they are about their religion.
In order to try and walk in their shoes, kinda get a feeling for the mindset, I wanna try to debate from the religios side.

I am originally babtized roman catholic, so anyone who wants to debate me on that, please step forward.

I will try to really argue and talk in that mindset of a a beliefer and see if I can make any points.
For real I am not very educated in that religion but I saw enough evil atheist material to know your arguments. So I will try and talk against them.
Therefore you are going to be the Atheist and I am the Theist in this debate.

We can go from topic to topic until one of us stops the debate.

Once I give the go and the thread is locked for the two of us (whoever wants to) I will give a religious opening statement and the battle can begin.

So who wants to join me in this little experiment.

disclaimer: This is not to make fun of the roman catholic church or so, it is to try and get into that mindset for once, to understand them better. So please do not be nice to me during the debate. Debate me as if I was real Smile

[Image: 69p7qx.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
25-12-2012, 09:37 PM
RE: Trying it from the other side
It all depends on the topic you want to discuss. Consider

[Image: IcJnQOT.gif]
Find all posts by this user
26-12-2012, 04:35 AM
RE: Trying it from the other side
truth of this religion, god, creation, omnipotence of god, whatever, existence of jesus and the apostles, mary magdalene a whore or not, jesus coming back to life after 3 days, jesus real name, literal truth of things in the bible, cencus, nazareth, gods laws and moral etc etc. all that stuff.
I will try to be a smart christian (but honestly i am not well educated in that religion so I may be an average Christian)

[Image: 69p7qx.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
26-12-2012, 12:49 PM
RE: Trying it from the other side
(26-12-2012 04:35 AM)Leela Wrote:  truth of this religion
I choose that one. Yes

[Image: IcJnQOT.gif]
Find all posts by this user
[+] 1 user Likes Vosur's post
27-12-2012, 10:47 AM
RE: Trying it from the other side
Well then Vosur let's try Smile I'll just wait for the go, from a mod, and then I will give a first statement to the truth of the roman catholic religion

[Image: 69p7qx.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
[+] 1 user Likes Leela's post
27-12-2012, 11:38 AM
RE: Trying it from the other side
Challenge has been accepted.
Only Leela and Vosur may participate in this thread. All other comments will be deleted.
May the best atheist win!

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
Find all posts by this user
[+] 1 user Likes Erxomai's post
27-12-2012, 12:08 PM
RE: Trying it from the other side
I grew up in Bavaria (that's Germany). Most people there are babtized Roman Catholic. Most where actually babtized as babys, so no matter what happens to them, they will go to heaven if they die. I was not raised or babtized Roman Catholic at first.
When I was 5 years old, my mother asked me what religion I would like to get babtized in, and I chose Roman Catholic.
Before that, noone has ever talked to me about religion, but still I chose exactly this one.
That is because it is the only correct religion out there. God was in me already, and he helped me to chose the correct church.

Many people, that I know, have also been babtized Roman Catholic and they are all happy people. Most of them go to church every Sunday, but as it does not say in the Bible that you have to go to church every week, some of them don't. They praise God at home, in their dayly life, and God has never betrayed them because they trust in him, and it is his way to reward them.

While other Religions claim to be the true one, this one is indeed the real Religion. Christianity started Catholic and from the Catholic, the other religions split away because they disagreed with some things. This make members of other religions sinners. They claim to believe in God, his laws and his will, but on the other hand they made up their own religion and rules, so they do not have to follow Gods will as stated in the bible.
For example protestant split away because they disagreed with God's will to have male priests and preachers. God had a reason why he made this rule, therefore it is important and has to be held truth. If you disagree, you either have to get over it or you have go to hell, for your unpure thoughts!

[Image: 69p7qx.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
27-12-2012, 01:42 PM
RE: Trying it from the other side
(27-12-2012 12:08 PM)Leela Wrote:  Before that, noone has ever talked to me about religion, but still I chose exactly this one.
That is because it is the only correct religion out there. God was in me already, and he helped me to chose the correct church.
Members of other religions and different Christian denominations claim to have experienced the same scenario. If you think that your anecdotal testimony adds to the validity of the Roman Catholic Church and you don't want to set a double standard, you'll have to accept their stories as evidence for their particular religion as well.

(27-12-2012 12:08 PM)Leela Wrote:  Many people, that I know, have also been babtized Roman Catholic and they are all happy people. Most of them go to church every Sunday, but as it does not say in the Bible that you have to go to church every week, some of them don't. They praise God at home, in their dayly life, and God has never betrayed them because they trust in him, and it is his way to reward them.
See above.

(27-12-2012 12:08 PM)Leela Wrote:  While other Religions claim to be the true one, this one is indeed the real Religion. Christianity started Catholic and from the Catholic, the other religions split away because they disagreed with some things. This make members of other religions sinners. They claim to believe in God, his laws and his will, but on the other hand they made up their own religion and rules, so they do not have to follow Gods will as stated in the bible.
For example protestant split away because they disagreed with God's will to have male priests and preachers. God had a reason why he made this rule, therefore it is important and has to be held truth. If you disagree, you either have to get over it or you have go to hell, for your unpure thoughts!
Judaism existed way before the foundation of the Roman Catholic Church, is it therefore more valid? After all, one could say that the followers of Jesus simply split away from the Jewish religion because they disagreed with its teachings and that they made up their own rules. With that aside, I'd wager that Baptism, for instance, has more validity than Roman Catholicism. The Bible does not state that one is guaranteed to go to heaven simply by being baptized, meaning that the Catholic belief that babies go to heaven in case they die after being baptized is null and void. Since baptists have no such belief, it follows that their denomination is closer to the teachings of the Bible than yours and therefore more valid.

Anyway, is there any empirical evidence you know of that suggests that Roman Catholicism is more valid than other denominations and entirely different religions? Consider

[Image: IcJnQOT.gif]
Find all posts by this user
27-12-2012, 03:36 PM
RE: Trying it from the other side
Jesus was the founder of the Christian Church. The first recognized form of the Christian Church was Roman Catholic (see Roman Empire, and them making it an actual state religion).
Now yes, I do not deny that there where Jews before Jesus, and he himself was raised as one. But the important point here is, that Jesus is God's son. God sent Jesus down to earth, to show His people the right way. Jesus took away the sins of the world to give humanity a new start, a second chance; just like any father would give his children a second chance when they do something wrong or are mistaken.
Before Jesus died on the cross, he appointed his apostles and gave them his teachings. He knew that he would die and he wanted the word to be taught even after his death.
This is what the Apostles did.
Now as Jesus being there to teach the right way, the word that God gave him to carry forward this shows logically, that other ways of believing were not correct, and did not please God. This was one of the Reasons why God sent his son. To show us how to practice His religion in a good, correct, and pleasing way.
Apart from that, God said that he is the only one, true god. There are no others. As he was and still is our creator he is true. God was there first, and he was the only one to be there, to create anything. So he created the earth and the space and everything we can see and feel nowadays.
Now sure, we know that sometimes we have difficulties to understand him right, because we are limited. This is why some people, back then, didn't know that he was only one God. They thought, that because there are many things that have been created, there had to be many creators.
But with God talking to the Jews, he made clear that this is not true. And as the Jews understood this but they did neither spread this knowledge nor did they start practicing the religion correctly, He sent us his son (as I said to teach us the right ways, and to take away our sins).

God gave us the knowledge, we needed, he had Jesus wash away our sins in his own blood, and still with this knowledge, people still decide of their own will, that they are not going to follow the word of God, our father. You see, like any other good father, he gave us free will and the knowledge we needed. God is our father, our creator. We are his children. A father knows what's best for his children, and if they don't listen, they get punished. So do we. Our father told us how to live right and how to be good, if we decide to ignore that, then that is our fault.

Anyway, to get back to the point. With Jesus' teaching and him being the start of Christianity, and with the Roman Empire being the first ones to actually recognize the truth of these teachings, giving them it's name, and making them a state religion (not only state, but empire wide), this makes it the first and true form of Christianity.
Now when people split away from that, because they don't like it the way God intended, that makes them apostates. Until they come back to the one, true religion, the religion of God our father, the roman catholic church, until they come back, they are not pleasing God and they will their punishment once they get judged (either on judgementday when God had enough, or when they die before that).

If you want to check, here are my sources:
The Cambridge Modern History (by John Emerich Edward),
The Encyclopedia of Christianity (by Erwin Fahlbusch),
The Reformation (by Owen Chadwick)
The Bible

[Image: 69p7qx.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
27-12-2012, 04:01 PM (This post was last modified: 27-12-2012 09:12 PM by Vosur.)
RE: Trying it from the other side
(27-12-2012 03:36 PM)Leela Wrote:  Jesus was the founder of the Christian Church.
No. Jesus may have inspired the founders of the early Christian churches, but he himself died long before he could have made any contribution to it.

(27-12-2012 03:36 PM)Leela Wrote:  The first recognized form of the Christian Church was Roman Catholic (see Roman Empire, and them making it an actual state religion).
Now yes, I do not deny that there where Jews before Jesus, and he himself was raised as one. But the important point here is, that Jesus is God's son. God sent Jesus down to earth, to show His people the right way. Jesus took away the sins of the world to give humanity a new start, a second chance; just like any father would give his children a second chance when they do something wrong or are mistaken.
Before Jesus died on the cross, he appointed his apostles and gave them his teachings. He knew that he would die and he wanted the word to be taught even after his death.
This is what the Apostles did.
Now as Jesus being there to teach the right way, the word that God gave him to carry forward this shows logically, that other ways of believing were not correct, and did not please God. This was one of the Reasons why God sent his son. To show us how to practice His religion in a good, correct, and pleasing way.
Apart from that, God said that he is the only one, true god. There are no others. As he was and still is our creator he is true. God was there first, and he was the only one to be there, to create anything. So he created the earth and the space and everything we can see and feel nowadays.
Now sure, we know that sometimes we have difficulties to understand him right, because we are limited. This is why some people, back then, didn't know that he was only one God. They thought, that because there are many things that have been created, there had to be many creators.
But with God talking to the Jews, he made clear that this is not true. And as the Jews understood this but they did neither spread this knowledge nor did they start practicing the religion correctly, He sent us his son (as I said to teach us the right ways, and to take away our sins).
The authors of the Gospels wrote that Jesus claimed to have been the Son of God, but how do you know that he wasn't merely a false prophet or a liar? You should keep in mind that god's chosen people, the Jews, didn't recognize him as the prophesied Messiah.

(27-12-2012 03:36 PM)Leela Wrote:  God gave us the knowledge, we needed, he had Jesus wash away our sins in his own blood, and still with this knowledge, people still decide of their own will, that they are not going to follow the word of God, our father. You see, like any other good father, he gave us free will and the knowledge we needed. God is our father, our creator. We are his children. A father knows what's best for his children, and if they don't listen, they get punished. So do we. Our father told us how to live right and how to be good, if we decide to ignore that, then that is our fault.
Humans who live in the deepest jungles of Africa and those who grow up isolated in distant countries with vastly different cultures have not and will not hear anything about Christianity within their lifetime. What kind of father would punish his children for not believing even though he never gave them a chance to do so?

(27-12-2012 03:36 PM)Leela Wrote:  Anyway, to get back to the point. With Jesus' teaching and him being the start of Christianity, and with the Roman Empire being the first ones to actually recognize the truth of these teachings, giving them it's name, and making them a state religion (not only state, but empire wide), this makes it the first and true form of Christianity.
Now when people split away from that, because they don't like it the way God intended, that makes them apostates. Until they come back to the one, true religion, the religion of God our father, the roman catholic church, until they come back, they are not pleasing God and they will their punishment once they get judged (either on judgementday when God had enough, or when they die before that).
As I've said earlier, the Roman Catholic Church was founded by those who split from Judaism. If anything, Christianity is just as false as any other religion today.

Lastly, I see that you did not answer the following question. I'd like you to do so now.
(27-12-2012 01:42 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Anyway, is there any empirical evidence you know of that suggests that Roman Catholicism is more valid than other denominations and entirely different religions? Consider

[Image: IcJnQOT.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Thread Closed 
Forum Jump: