Tsarnaev gets death
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17-05-2015, 12:47 AM (This post was last modified: 17-05-2015 08:10 AM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Tsarnaev gets death
(16-05-2015 03:36 PM)Black Eagle Wrote:  Anjele is right; I am pretty emotional about the death penalty and this case. I recognize that. I also get pretty worked up about cases where children, like Martin Richard and his sister, are victims. I cannot imagine his father lying on the sidewalk with him, recognizing that the kid is going to die, and crawling away to be near his sister who can be saved. Dying alone at 8 years old has to be hell and Tsarnaev caused that to happen.

If you don't get emotional about this shit, brotha, you ain't human. There's nothing wrong with getting emotional. It's good that you recognize it in yourself, too.

I hope you can take heart in the fact that as the asshole fought for his life in court, his defense consisted of "I didn't know what I was doing, my big brother made me do it."

Because what that really means is that he is denying his faith and its role in his crime. I know it's a small bone to nibble on, but in facing death, this was one theist whose knees knocked and hands trembled as he saw that his precious god could not save him from the power of the State. I'm sure that somewhere, a cock crowed three times.
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17-05-2015, 12:52 AM
RE: Tsarnaev gets death
(16-05-2015 07:00 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I don't see any value in making a person suffer at the expense of the tax payer.
If they make the death penalty process leaner then they should be able to fry him in an electric chair for a much cheaper cost than a life sentence. This way the problem is done away with (i.e. no longer a threat to society) and the tax payers save some money that perhaps they could spend on the victims or victim's families.

Oh, that's still costly -- only, the cost is in trust in the system. Not so easily quantifiable ... nor so easily remedied.
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17-05-2015, 12:11 PM
RE: Tsarnaev gets death
(16-05-2015 11:17 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(16-05-2015 08:43 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  How many innocent people are you willing to kill in the interest of saving money?
I wasn't talking about frying innocent people.
Some cases are clear cut.

Yeah...they are all clear cut when the state, with virtually unlimited resources, goes up against an over-worked public defender.

Fortunately, we have people like this working to redress the balance.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/

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17-05-2015, 01:14 PM
RE: Tsarnaev gets death
I think the thing I hate the most about this kind of thing is seeing the vindictive side of people... I mean, sure, he done bad stuff. But cruel and unusual punishment being verboten... that's a genius piece of legal work there. Your guys constitution is rightly something you can be proud of. He got a fair trial, legally carried out... Sure, it might be expensive with appeals etc and a strategic bullet or a room-mate with less than stellar morals might solve problems a lot faster... But one reason you guys are admired, again rightly IMO, is that you do go that extra mile.

I got no problem with him facing death penalty as long as it's a legal trial that results in his demise. EK, sure, you kill innocents with death penalty and sure it may be argued that it's barbaric. It is a price that you pay. Justice is not "right". There is no moral good to be had. Justice *is* indeed, the killing of innocents, the wasting of innocent people's lives... for a certain number of people. It may well be for the vindictive pleasure of people getting vicarious revenge that these laws exist but... as long as the law is followed, justice is served.

Getting the death penalty rescinded, taking those laws off the books, that's a worthy cause. But if he's tried by the Law and the Law says death, that's what he gets. It's not any more a question of cruelty or morality or anything. It's simply "are the conditions fullfilled that result in the penalty being incurred?". Plus appeals and whatnot to give him some sorta chance if there's been a mistake.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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17-05-2015, 01:31 PM
RE: Tsarnaev gets death
An idea I had a while ago....

Having seen what kind of justice a person gets with a Public Defender -- which is frequently sub-par ---

I think it would be a wonderful idea to have anyone being prosecuted - with a death penalty on the case --- should automatically be given a grant to spend on a private attorney.

If the defendant takes this funding - he waives the right to appeal --ON GROUNDS OF ATTORNEY INCOMPETENCE........

And considering what it costs to prosecute a death penalty case -- giving the defendant a 1/4 million isn't out of the question.....


Any thoughts??

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17-05-2015, 01:45 PM
RE: Tsarnaev gets death
A quarter of a million is a drop in the bucket for a terrorism case. The final bills for McVeigh's defense came to about $15 million. The cost to the taxpayers to prosecute him was $82.5 million.
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17-05-2015, 02:56 PM
RE: Tsarnaev gets death
(17-05-2015 01:31 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  An idea I had a while ago....

Having seen what kind of justice a person gets with a Public Defender -- which is frequently sub-par ---

I think it would be a wonderful idea to have anyone being prosecuted - with a death penalty on the case --- should automatically be given a grant to spend on a private attorney.

If the defendant takes this funding - he waives the right to appeal --ON GROUNDS OF ATTORNEY INCOMPETENCE........

And considering what it costs to prosecute a death penalty case -- giving the defendant a 1/4 million isn't out of the question.....


Any thoughts??

Money doesn't guarantee competence. I'd rather have the state foot the entire bill for death penalty trials.

If the people are that interested in seeing the convict killed, let them spend the money to ensure that the conviction is just; and let the defendant have the full panoply of rights, including the right to appeal based on incompetent representation.

Also, as a practical matter: if you just hand them a credit card, they can hit Mexico pretty quick.
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17-05-2015, 03:16 PM
RE: Tsarnaev gets death
(16-05-2015 11:11 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  So, the idea of "murder is wrong, and we're going to prove that by murdering you right back" doesn't trip anyone else's bullshit meter?

The death penalty doesn't serve justice, it serves retribution. Call me naive, but I take umbrage to that.

"Retributive justice is a theory of justice that considers punishment, if proportionate, to be the best response to crime. When an offender breaks the law, justice requires that they forfeit something in return. Retribution should be distinguished from vengeance. Unlike revenge, retribution is directed only at wrongs, has inherent limits, is not personal, involves no pleasure at the suffering of others, and employs procedural standards."

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17-05-2015, 03:17 PM
RE: Tsarnaev gets death
(16-05-2015 08:43 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  
Quote:If they make the death penalty process leaner then they should be able to fry him in an electric chair for a much cheaper cost than a life sentence.


How many innocent people are you willing to kill in the interest of saving money?

Yabut, Tsarnaev ain't innocent. So there's that. Drinking Beverage

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-05-2015, 03:38 PM
RE: Tsarnaev gets death
(17-05-2015 03:17 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-05-2015 08:43 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  How many innocent people are you willing to kill in the interest of saving money?

Yabut, Tsarnaev ain't innocent. So there's that. Drinking Beverage

It seems pretty clear that the discussion has gone beyond Numbnuts.
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