Turkey - Kurdistan
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17-12-2011, 04:24 AM
Turkey - Kurdistan
So, this example is great for showing how even friends of USA can get away with everything, while the rest of the world pretends that nothing is happening. Now, Turks have decided that chemical weapons are great for killing civilians and destroying villages. There is also a nice article about Serbia and Kosovo, they have described the situation pretty well.

http://www.partijarada.org/e_index.htm

Why nobody is trialled for this monstrosity is beyond me, this is even worse that Israel - Palestine war. Such oppression and nobody cares, nobody is punished, nobody even talks about it, It's better to be silent than to have an argument or hurt somebodies feeling. Oh really? This is great example how USA can do whatever and how Europe does nothing to protect people form oppressions like this. But if you are not a friend of USA, then everybody is on to you, USA, EU, NATO, they will all shut your state down if you do not comply.

It's good that we have democracy all over the world, democracy is sooo good...

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17-12-2011, 05:10 AM
 
RE: Turkey - Kurdistan
Turkey denies the three genocides, being the Assyrian, Dersim (Kurdish), Pontian (Greek), Armenian Genocides it committed, not to mention the small scale massacres committed during the Ottoman period. Till fairly recently Israel worked with and funded its own denial campaigns, with complacent American government support (which still exists).

Turkey is an international criminal yet to face justice for its crimes, it still continues to persecute and murder its religious (even ethnic 'Turkish' Christians are killed/assaulted for abandoning Islam) and ethnic minorities, and crush political dissent (through its anti-free speech laws). Erdo─čan (the Turkish PM) is an iron-fisted, Islamic Theocrat, he should be in a mental institution or a prison, not ruling a country. Sleepy
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17-12-2011, 09:25 AM
RE: Turkey - Kurdistan
(17-12-2011 04:24 AM)Filox Wrote:  It's good that we have democracy all over the world, democracy is sooo good...

As an American, this is the only part of your thread that filtered through.

The sad, harsh, hypocritical reality is the US needs Turkey as an ally and entry point into the Middle East. It's not a Just reason, but it's the same reason the US either gets involved or doesn't get involved into regional conflicts. If it threatens our interests (i.e. Oil), then the military will act. If we get enough pressure from allies, we'll drop a few bombs here and there, but otherwise it has to be our idea and to "protect" our interests.

To add to your correct criticism of the US not using muscle against Turkey to stop such vicious atrocities, I include the ignored Genocides throughout Africa (as well as ignored starvation) to our nation's list of crimes of indifference against Humanity.

Sad

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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19-12-2011, 05:00 AM
RE: Turkey - Kurdistan
This is not just USA's fault/problem, EU has the same amount of blame to take, the same amount of influence it could had, if it wanted to act. Who are Armenians, or Kurds? They are nobody, small and without importance to "great forces", so it actually is good for them to be wiped out, so that their allies can take the land and resources and divide them to their "bigger" friends.

What bothers me is that Turkey is supposed to be a modern, secular democratic republic, a member of UN and NATO, closest neighbor with EU. It amazes me how much can the whole world keep their eyes closed and not care.

Africa is a completely special story, so i didn't want to mention it on purpose.

P.S.
Erxomai, I didn't catch all the hidden messages about the USA. What was it that I wrote wrong, or what was it that you filtered and why? Did I say something wrong and false?

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19-12-2011, 05:07 AM
RE: Turkey - Kurdistan
(19-12-2011 05:00 AM)Filox Wrote:  This is not just USA's fault/problem, EU has the same amount of blame to take, the same amount of influence it could had, if it wanted to act. Who are Armenians, or Kurds? They are nobody, small and without importance to "great forces", so it actually is good for them to be wiped out, so that their allies can take the land and resources and divide them to their "bigger" friends.

What bothers me is that Turkey is supposed to be a modern, secular democratic republic, a member of UN and NATO, closest neighbor with EU. It amazes me how much can the whole world keep their eyes closed and not care.

Africa is a completely special story, so i didn't want to mention it on purpose.

P.S.
Erxomai, I didn't catch all the hidden messages about the USA. What was it that I wrote wrong, or what was it that you filtered and why? Did I say something wrong and false?

Oh, Filox, I agree with you completely on this topic. I was trying (unsuccessfully) to be silly by posing as an ignorant, and arrogant American.

Americans have a way of thinking that as long as we spread democracy then we are being good people. Nevermind that a democracy can still end up committing atrocities, or at least ignoring them. Yet, say the word "democracy," and Americans will fight for it. So I was attempting to point that out. We want to ignore the bad stuff that you brought up, and just think of nice happy democracies spreading throughout the earth.

Now that I think about it, Christians have the same attitude toward spreading the Gospel to the uttermost parts of the earth. So when you put a Born-Again Christian in office as President (ie, George Bush), then you get a very dangerous mix of spreading the Gospel of Democracy.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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19-12-2011, 07:06 AM
RE: Turkey - Kurdistan
Aha. My sense of sarcasm has been slowed down due to the seriousness of the topic, sorry, didn't see it. Now I see.

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19-12-2011, 07:43 AM
 
RE: Turkey - Kurdistan
I feel the Amer-Centric world-view needs to be corrected in several major points:

1) Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction, those it did have it used to genocide the Kurds, which again was passively ignored by a former US administration, and its allies for geo-political reasons. Thus the whole mandate for going to war was hollow, a far better mandate would have been simply to remove Saddam.

2) Afghanistan may have been host to Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden, but their main base of operations was on the border of Pakistan and Afghanistan. Despite having some ties to the Taliban, the Taliban had nothing to do whatsoever with 9/11. So the whole mandate for going to war there was again hollow, a far better mandate would have been to just toss out the Taliban and free the people from its theocratic rule.

3) Ho Chi Minh was not an evil man hell bent on destroying Asia, and making it all Communist. He fought for independence against the French colonialists who had invaded and oppressed his homeland, after the French left he asked for the friendship of the United States, only to be turned down. Then the Americans arrived set up a brutal dictatorship in South Vietnam, and attempted to destroy North Vietnam, only to fail and be forced out of the country.

4) The USSR had no plan for communist world domination, they were quite happy with their lot that they acquired at the end of ww2, the soviet leadership from Stalin to Gorbachev was dedicated to the maintenance of peace and their own sovereignty, rather than some grand plan to conquer the United States.
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19-12-2011, 08:58 AM
RE: Turkey - Kurdistan
I mostly agree with your intent, but:

(19-12-2011 07:43 AM)CrazyKitteh Wrote:  1) Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction, those it did have it used to genocide the Kurds,

You contradict yourself.

Quote:2) Afghanistan may have been host to Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden, but their main base of operations was on the border of Pakistan and Afghanistan.

"on the border"? A border is a line with no area - they are in one, the other, or both countries.

Quote:4) The USSR had no plan for communist world domination, they were quite happy with their lot that they acquired at the end of ww2, ...
Except for the fact that they continually tried to extend their influence and control all over the world. And Kruschev said to the West, "We will bury you!"

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19-12-2011, 10:32 AM
RE: Turkey - Kurdistan
(19-12-2011 08:58 AM)Chas Wrote:  I mostly agree with your intent, but:

(19-12-2011 07:43 AM)CrazyKitteh Wrote:  1) Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction, those it did have it used to genocide the Kurds,

You contradict yourself.

Quote:2) Afghanistan may have been host to Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden, but their main base of operations was on the border of Pakistan and Afghanistan.

"on the border"? A border is a line with no area - they are in one, the other, or both countries.

Quote:4) The USSR had no plan for communist world domination, they were quite happy with their lot that they acquired at the end of ww2, ...
Except for the fact that they continually tried to extend their influence and control all over the world. And Kruschev said to the West, "We will bury you!"

As far as 1-3, I agree with you insofar as they also need to address the points that Chas raised, but I'm completely with Chas on #4. The idea of Communism isn't far from the idea of Islam isn't far from the idea of Christianity. They all want to dominate the world with their ideology. Vietnam was a bad idea as far as the "domino" theory, but the USSR was clearly expanding their hegemony of influence into the Western Hemisphere by supporting Castro and the Central and South American Marxist revolutions.

If that's not enough support, then I refer you to the final authority of how we know the Commies were a very real threat to American Sovereignty:




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20-12-2011, 05:35 AM
RE: Turkey - Kurdistan
As stated in this article, Turkey is the one that is going to use chemical weapons on Kurds, not Iraq, there NEVER was ANY weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, that was a BS cover story by US.

Afghanistan is one the the richest countries with ore, minerals and opium, Talibans were a BS cover story made by the US. If they wanted to destroy Talibans, they would have gone to Pakistan and deal with them a long time ago, but that was not their agenda, their agenda was to throw them out of Afghanistan, which they did and now they don't care about Talibans, Al Quaeda, Osama or anyone else.

Ho Chi Ming and USSR are only protecting their national interests, only they do it in their own neighborhood, not on the other side of the world. They are opened about it, they do not sell us BS stories, so at least they are not hypocritical about it.

BTW, do not say anything against China, try looking at the things in your house and see how many of them are Made In China. If it weren't for China today, you (and I, we all) would have to spend much more money on everyday things. We should all praise China, it gave us cheep things to buy and if we say otherwise, we are all being hypocrites. If it weren't for Chinese cheap labor (slaves almost) we wouldn't enjoy our life, sad but true, so look at your house first, then respond to this if you feel the need to.

Back to the subject, I don't even see the reason why everyone want to kill all those millions of Kurds, I still don't see what is it that they did to Turkey and Iraq. Whatever the reason is, tanks against unarmed civilians, airplanes against women and children and use of chemical weapons against human beings??!! Really? 2011, almost 2012, and this is the way people act today? Evolution you say? I say devolution of men, not evolution, that is where we are going, we are returning to Dark Ages and we are going to stupidify ourselves to the ultimate destruction. We are all to blame, not just USA, not just the government.

It's a shame where we are going... Imagine if there is a God and he is watching us... For the last 2000 years he is facepalming himself and all he was able to say was: WTF? WTF? WTF? WTF? WTF? He is still trying to wrap his head around human stupidity and ignorance.

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