Turkey (again) or "how to deal with bullies"
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25-07-2017, 04:20 AM
Turkey (again) or "how to deal with bullies"
Last week the turkish government handed (via interpol) a list over to german prosecution. This list contianed names of 700 companies and (individual) persons who are, according to turkish government, supporting Gülen terrorists in Turkey.

Names on the list were: BASF, Daimler, Siemens, Thyssen-Krupp.....down to individual german Kebap shops (owners). Facepalm

Reaction of german government (have to look up details): Well, i guess then we have to talk again about investing into turkish economy again, and general economic relationship with Turkey.

Reaction of turkish government: Turkish minister of internal afairs (Süleyman Soylu) calls the according german minister (De Maiziere) and tells him its all a big "misunderstanding" and "miscommunication". Laugh out load

List is formally taken down again by Turkey. Drinking Beverage

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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13-08-2017, 05:18 PM
RE: Turkey (again) or "how to deal with bullies"
Are you aware that when Turkey was founded as a nation after the breakup of the Ottoman Empire, that it was supposed to be a secular republic? Ataturk was very anti-Islam. His father was from Thessolonica and pulled him out of Islamic school at an early age. All the army coups over the years have been a reaction to the growth of Islam and the rise in the number of Muslims in the country. This is just the latest in a long secularist battle against Islam in Turkey. Gulenism is like the Muslim Brotherhood. It's actually strange that Erdogan, who professes to be a devout Muslim, is moving against an old Islamic buddy of his, Fetulah Gulen, who is holed up in Pennsylvannia. The story here in the Near East, among Turks, is that Gulen is a CIA frontman and his movement, which runs Turkish language schools around the world is a front for the CIA in countries where the US cannot operate openly, and have no "cover" for their operations, ie., spying.

I see this as the revenge of the Kemalist Generals who the Gulenists had locked up in show trials a few years ago but were released not long before the attempted coup. Smoke and mirrors...
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13-08-2017, 06:45 PM
RE: Turkey (again) or "how to deal with bullies"
Laughat
(25-07-2017 04:20 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Last week the turkish government handed (via interpol) a list over to german prosecution. This list contianed names of 700 companies and (individual) persons who are, according to turkish government, supporting Gülen terrorists in Turkey.

Names on the list were: BASF, Daimler, Siemens, Thyssen-Krupp.....down to individual german Kebap shops (owners). Facepalm

Reaction of german government (have to look up details): Well, i guess then we have to talk again about investing into turkish economy again, and general economic relationship with Turkey.

Reaction of turkish government: Turkish minister of internal afairs (Süleyman Soylu) calls the according german minister (De Maiziere) and tells him its all a big "misunderstanding" and "miscommunication".
List is formally taken down again by Turkey. Drinking Beverage

Laughat

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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13-08-2017, 07:10 PM
RE: Turkey (again) or "how to deal with bullies"
Of course, nothing detracts from the fact that Erdogan is a complete nutjob, but I don't think he is in control of events anymore. The Turkish Army, under the Turkish constitution, has the right to decide "everything" and are the protectors of the constitutions, since Ataturk was the head of the Turkish army. Turkey has a huge army and every Turkish man has to join the army and do regular duty when called up. This is why the Gulenists in the army rose up, because the secularist generals who they had thrown in jail, for life, and were then released, are now calling the shots. What you are witnessing is a secularist counter coup and purge against Islamists.

Wiki: "The Turkish military perceived itself as the guardian of Kemalist ideology, the official state ideology, especially of the secular aspects of Kemalism[citation needed]. The TAF (Turkish Armed Forces) still maintains an important degree of influence over the decision making process regarding issues related to Turkish national security, albeit decreased in the past decades, via the National Security Council"
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14-08-2017, 01:16 AM
RE: Turkey (again) or "how to deal with bullies"
(13-08-2017 07:10 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Of course, nothing detracts from the fact that Erdogan is a complete nutjob, but I don't think he is in control of events anymore. The Turkish Army, under the Turkish constitution, has the right to decide "everything" and are the protectors of the constitutions,...

Except, this isnt true anymore.

https://www.turkeyanalyst.org/publicatio...tured.html

After the coup the TSK has been completely restructured and the biggest powers and means of influence on the state have been taken away by Erdogans administration.

After the coup 45% of Admirals and Generals in the army got sacked.

Quote: First, the Chief of Staff will be appointed directly by the president. Direct government control will also be strengthened by levelling the number of cabinet ministers and four-star generals in the Supreme Military Council (YAŞ)

Quote:The Chief of Staff and the General Staff will be attached to the Presidency instead of the Prime Minister’s office. The commanders of the Land-, Air- and Sea-forces, on the other hand, will be subjected to the Ministry of National Defense. Moreover, the president and the prime minister will be able to give orders directly to these commanders without going through the Chief of Staff. Ultimately, this could reduce the Chief of Staff to a coordinator of military affairs rather than the top commander of the armed forces. In his new and enhanced role, the Minister of National Defense will be able to choose ministry staff rather than making do with what the TSK has provided. Traditionally, the defense ministry has been staffed by military officers on secondment from the General Staff, directed by three-star generals.

In addition, the military education system will undergo major changes. Military high schools have already been closed, and within two years the existing military academies will be fused into a new National University for Defense under the Ministry for National Defense.

Finally, the TSK will be stripped of many of its former units and functions. The paramilitary Gendarmerie and the Coast Guard will now be fully subjected to the Ministry of Internal Affairs. Military industrial facilities, shipyards and hospitals will be transferred to the Ministry of National Defense and the Ministry of Health respectively.

Quote:It is not difficult to understand the rationale behind increased civilian government control of the armed forces after the 15th July coup attempt. Neither are the ongoing changes in Turkey without parallel in other NATO countries. Germany has had a similar system since the 1950s with strong civilian control and oversight of the armed forces, and deliberate institutional mechanisms to prevent the Chief of Staff from becoming too strong in his relationship with the civilian government.

By means of the current changes, the Turkish government no doubt aims to transform the TSK into a better-managed and more efficient defense force that is capable of handling Turkey’s current and future security challenges, but without becoming a threat to the civilian government. However, in a less optimistic scenario, the Turkish Armed Forces could also become a more politicized and dysfunctional organisation, with greater internal rivalry between the branches and an even more restive officers’ corps. Such a development would impact negatively on the long-term efficiency and battle-preparedness of the armed forces, and could provide fertile ground for renewed political factionalism among the officers.

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