Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
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29-11-2015, 11:44 AM
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
(29-11-2015 01:31 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(28-11-2015 05:03 PM)Losty Wrote:  I understand that being willing to die for your country is supposed to be like the ultimate quality of someone with good character...but I don't see anything wrong with not being willing to die for your country. I am not willing to die for my country and I'm not ashamed of that.

And I'm cool with that, always have been.

There are many different ways to serve your country, or rebel against it for that matter. I don't take my swearing an oath as evidence of my own morality. That must be proven day by day, continually.

Thump, I know you're a great guy and I think that most people who sign up to serve do so for honorable reasons. I wasn't trying to say anything against people who serve in the military. I was only responding to KUSA's insinuation that if I would rather leave than die for my country that's a bad thing. I disagree. I would risk my life to save someone I felt was less capable of defending themselves than I, sure. I just don't feel patriotic enough to ever give my life to fight in a war when I could just as easily move some place that isn't in a war.

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29-11-2015, 07:14 PM
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
(29-11-2015 05:56 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(29-11-2015 01:53 AM)Banjo Wrote:  To whom do you swear this oath? Do you even know? Or is it just a figment of your imagination?

Therein lies the problem. You do not know for whom it is you work. Some Tory gazillionaire more like. Your next door neighbour?

Where does propaganda begin and end?

Actually, I swore it to the government of my country, no figment of my imagination, a real entity. Look it up sometime; it's real.

I knew for whom I worked. I didn't know what tasks I would be set to, nor what purposes would be served, which is one reason why I served my agreed enlistment but no more. I was much younger and less wise. I've grown in the meantime, and learnt more, and have in that very post you quoted noted that I have no moral ascendancy.

Having already acknowledged that, you should have the decency to not badger me. Do you really think I haven't thought about my service, from all sides of the prism? Do you think I'm that thoughtless, that I need you to give me a public lecture?

I'm not accustomed to my friends talking down to me so, and don't take kindly to it.


I would change the above slightly to "I think...."

And expressing an opinion is only that. And if i recall I was asking you? Not talking down to you. You chose that interpretation. I wonder why...?

I am nt even willing to consider if truth exists!

Somehow I doubt it. And certainly believe we, the general class of citizens, never hear it.

I never imagined you would take such a thing personally.

Is what I just said true or false? Can I change my mind? Is my mind even functioning correctly? Yesterday I wanted to kill myself but did not.

What I would recommend is NEVER take me that seriously again. If I do not trust my brain, why would you???


Now I am thinking about soldiers. The Romans who died at Cannae, lake Trasimene, Africa WWII, the Somme etc etc. They all fought for their countries. Were the Wehrmacht soldiers less honourable than their opponents? Was Eric Hatmann less honourable than Robert S Johnston? He was certainly more successful and then survived a Soviet gulag for a decade. But I see no real difference.

Basically young men pressed into service. And have I not read about Allied countries selling foodstuffs and fuel to the Nazix? I sure recall those books. Most US airmen were killed by the Japanese upon capture. But Bush was not. Why? Did he do a deal? I don't know.

All I know is that it all, and I include this conversation, is BS. And we will never know why.

And I too consider you a friend. My friend is likely sober while I am half out of it. We've known each other a while now and you know how I can be. Typically Australian with an open hatred and distrust for authority.

I have no idea how the above will read. I only know it contains no malice.

Cheers. D.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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30-11-2015, 03:16 AM
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
(29-11-2015 11:44 AM)Losty Wrote:  
(29-11-2015 01:31 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  And I'm cool with that, always have been.

There are many different ways to serve your country, or rebel against it for that matter. I don't take my swearing an oath as evidence of my own morality. That must be proven day by day, continually.

Thump, I know you're a great guy and I think that most people who sign up to serve do so for honorable reasons. I wasn't trying to say anything against people who serve in the military. I was only responding to KUSA's insinuation that if I would rather leave than die for my country that's a bad thing. I disagree. I would risk my life to save someone I felt was less capable of defending themselves than I, sure. I just don't feel patriotic enough to ever give my life to fight in a war when I could just as easily move some place that isn't in a war.

Oh, I didn't take it that way, ma'am. You certainly don't owe me any explanation, and I certainly wasn't asking for one. We each approach any given problem from our own viewpoints, and rarely is there truly a moral aspect to that process. I don't consider patriotic fervor worthy of much more than a little shelf-space in my store for some bumper stickers.
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30-11-2015, 03:33 AM
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
(29-11-2015 07:14 PM)Banjo Wrote:  I would change the above slightly to "I think...."

And expressing an opinion is only that. And if i recall I was asking you? Not talking down to you. You chose that interpretation. I wonder why...?

In any communication, there are two roles: writer/reader, speaker/listener, performer/audience. And you know as well as I do that both have a role in successful communication. Insinuating that I'm too dumb to see propaganda for what it is demeans me; it is your way of saying you're smart enough to see it, but I'm a rube who needs guidance. And that was in reply to a post of mine to someone else which was clearly not jingoistic propaganda tripe, at all.

Quote:I never imagined you would take such a thing personally.

Well, I'm not overfond of people aspersing my character or intelligence, and that's certainly how it read on this side of the screen.

(29-11-2015 07:14 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Is what I just said true or false? Can I change my mind? Is my mind even functioning correctly? Yesterday I wanted to kill myself but did not.

What I would recommend is NEVER take me that seriously again. If I do not trust my brain, why would you???

I know you're undergoing hardship, and will certainly keep that in mind in any future exchanges.

Quote:And I too consider you a friend. My friend is likely sober while I am half out of it. We've known each other a while now and you know how I can be. Typically Australian with an open hatred and distrust for authority.

I have no idea how the above will read. I only know it contains no malice.

Cheers. D.

I take no malice from your reply, and appreciate you taking the time to both consider my view and give me the decency of a reply.
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30-11-2015, 03:40 AM
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
(30-11-2015 03:33 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  In any communication, there are two roles: writer/reader, speaker/listener, performer/audience. And you know as well as I do that both have a role in successful communication. Insinuating that I'm too dumb to see propaganda for what it is demeans me; it is your way of saying you're smart enough to see it, but I'm a rube who needs guidance.

No to seeing you as dumb. You are taking a very broad viewpoint of mine, personally.

Actually these thoughts date to my childhood sitting amongst WWII soldiers and aviators talking about fighting the Japanese and German and Italians in WWII.

These Australian soldiers were of the belief they had been used. I was likely 10 or so. Long before TTA forum existed.

So I always ask questions. Which is what I did. There was no attack.

Now I am curious as to why you took it personally???

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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30-11-2015, 03:43 AM
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
(30-11-2015 03:33 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  I take no malice from your reply, and appreciate you taking the time to both consider my view and give me the decency of a reply.

Mate it's just me. Banjo. The guy who cannot keep his head straight.

15 minutes ago I nearly rang the Cancer helpline. But decided I have nothing to whine about. Bore some devil to death with my problems?

I do that here! Big Grin

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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30-11-2015, 03:49 AM
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
(30-11-2015 03:40 AM)Banjo Wrote:  So I always ask questions. Which is what I did. There was no attack.

Now I am curious as to why you took it personally???

I've already told you why, plain as day: "Insinuating that I'm too dumb to see propaganda for what it is demeans me."

I'm going to leave this discussion at that.
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07-12-2015, 06:58 PM
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
(30-11-2015 03:49 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  I've already told you why, plain as day: "Insinuating that I'm too dumb to see propaganda for what it is demeans me."

I'm going to leave this discussion at that.

Okay mate. Just remember my brain does not work correctly. I was referring to the general public anyway. Not you mate.

Thinking of the subject discussion this morning made me remember a passage from Cicero.

“Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century:
Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others;
Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected;
Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it;
Refusing to set aside trivial preferences;
Neglecting development and refinement of the mind;
Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do.”

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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08-12-2015, 02:01 AM
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
(07-12-2015 06:58 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(30-11-2015 03:49 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  I've already told you why, plain as day: "Insinuating that I'm too dumb to see propaganda for what it is demeans me."

I'm going to leave this discussion at that.

Okay mate. Just remember my brain does not work correctly. I was referring to the general public anyway. Not you mate.

Thinking of the subject discussion this morning made me remember a passage from Cicero.

“Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century:
Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others;
...

Woah there, Roman. Don't rock the trireme.

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08-12-2015, 02:06 AM
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
(08-12-2015 02:01 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  Woah there, Roman. Don't rock the trireme.

Ha! I've been "off" all day.

Sadcryface

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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