Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
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21-11-2015, 05:29 PM (This post was last modified: 21-11-2015 06:08 PM by Lord Dark Helmet.)
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
(21-11-2015 04:53 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(21-11-2015 02:49 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Inflated stats. They use stats that don't meet the definition of active shooter by the FBI. There is a difference between an active shooter (like a school shooter or library, where people are contained and have no way to escape) and a mass shooting (where 4 or more people are shot, could be domestic violence, drug violence, gang violence).

To lump gang shootings in with active shooters (which are very rare) is dishonesty. If I remember correctly the FBI has only documented 160 "active shooter" events in the last 20-30 years. An active shooter is more comparable to terrorism. The victims are usually unknown to the shooter, unlike a mass shooting where the shooter kills family or rival gang members.

I wasn’t trying to be dishonest, the fact that there are mass killings in the US nearly everyday compares unfavorably with the statistics you posted when looked in the light of citizen safety. In the end a victim of mass shootings is just as dead or wounded as one from an active shooter but I looked it up anyway and found

https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2014/se...0-and-2013

FBI defined active shooting incidents 160 between 2000-2013 or 11.4 incidents annually. Total casualties 1,043.

[Image: fbistats2.jpg?h=401&w=595]

[Image: fbistats1.jpg?h=323&w=595]

The upward trend of active shooting incidents in the US is nothing to take solace in. I brought up the comparison of mass shootings (including “active shooter”) to show that while any terrorist attack, in Turkey or elsewhere is horrific, a comparison to the US homegrown atrocities is not unwarranted and serves as a reminder that all atrocities aren’t commited by foreign terrorists.

My apologies. I didn't mean to imply you were being dishonest. I was referring to the article only.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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21-11-2015, 08:35 PM (This post was last modified: 21-11-2015 08:40 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
(21-11-2015 04:40 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  And I would bet money on you not 'remembering' shit about the NZ Land Wars let alone about specific engagements. Big Grin

Who could ever forget.



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22-11-2015, 05:40 AM (This post was last modified: 22-11-2015 07:38 AM by izel.)
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
I feel like I have to say something now Smile. First I'd like to remind you that we are NOT at the bottom of the industrial world. You could have said that 10 years ago, today we have one of the fastest growing economy in the world. We are far from a "brink of a civil war" do we agree with everything our politicians do? Absolutely not. But civil war because we disagree with Erdoğan's policy? Get real... And no we don't have bombs exploding everywhere, this is not Syria. We live a quite peacefully here. Do I wanna see 2 million Arab's running around my streets? Absolutely not. But neither do I wanna see this in my beach
[Image: humanity_washed_up_ashore_jpg_cf.jpg]

I don't care his nationality or religion, you can not possibly tell me seeing this image does not break your heart? Yes we too are scared of being a victim of the terror horror just like the rest of the Europe and the world. But we're not gonna live in a bubble are we now?

Edit: I have to say more Laugh out load
If you referring last years demonstrations to a civil war then you couldn't be more wrong. That was over a park. Look it up Gezi Parkı. The government wanted to take down a park in Istanbul and build a shopping mall and the entire country went crazy over it. Those who voted for Erdoğan and those who didn't, they all demonstrated the idea of destroying one of the few places left green in Istanbul. I don't know since when standing up against your government to protect the nature is being considered as a problem but, if that is a problem your nation is facing then you are doing very well, please keep it up.

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22-11-2015, 06:57 AM (This post was last modified: 22-11-2015 07:43 AM by Lord Dark Helmet.)
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
(22-11-2015 05:40 AM)izel Wrote:  I feel like I hate to say something now Smile. First I'd like to remind you that we are NOT at the bottom of the industrial world. You could have said that 10 years ago, today we have one of the fastest growing economy in the world. We are far from a "brink of a civil war" do we agree with everything our politicians do? Absolutely not. But civil war because we disagree with Erdoğan's policy? Get real... Do I wanna see 2 million Arab's running around my streets? Absolutely not. But neither do I wanna see this
[Image: humanity_washed_up_ashore_jpg_cf.jpg]

I don't care his nationality or religion, you can not possibly tell me seeing this image does not break your heart? Yes we too are scared of being a victim of the terror horror just like the rest of the Europe and the world. But we're not gonna live in a bubble are we now?

You are right, of course. The children are the real victims. It's sad they suffer. I can't help but think of my own children, especially my 15 month old son.

While I understand that these refugees are fleeing terrible conditions, I also don't want the risk that comes with them. It puts me in a difficult position to choose which side to take. I see the photo you posted of the dead child that washed ashore. It is truly sad. But the ISIS fuckers show no compassion when it comes to children. They've buried children alive. Crucified children in front of their parents for stupid "crimes" like failing to fast during Ramadan. Little kids just want some food and they crucify them and make their parents watch. They lock kids in cages and let them starve to death. They blow up schools. And the beheadings. Shit is sick.

So fuck them. They're never going to stop until one side is dead. So let's get it over with. Let's put massive amount of troops on the ground and take them out. I know Obama won't do it, but hopefully the next president will. And if they want to fight on American soil, so be it. I think they underestimate us. They might kill some of us but it won't be as easy as other places they've done this shit. I don't think these ISIS fuckers understand the actual firepower owned by the average American. It will only take a few attacks on American soil like what happened in Paris and you'll have 75 million rednecks in pickup trucks patrolling the streets. Probably be a mass exodus out of America by Muslims because they won't feel safe.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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22-11-2015, 07:28 AM
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
Your signing up for the military to be one of those boots on the ground, right? Or, are you just brave when someone else's life is on the line?

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22-11-2015, 07:42 AM
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
(22-11-2015 07:28 AM)BnW Wrote:  Your signing up for the military to be one of those boots on the ground, right? Or, are you just brave when someone else's life is on the line?

I did my 10 years. I also had a break in service already (got out after my first enlistment but went back in 3 months later), so I can't go back in unfortunately. Maybe if the SHTF they'd give me a waiver to let me enlist again. I'd do it in a heartbeat. My wife wouldn't like it though.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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22-11-2015, 07:43 AM
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
(21-11-2015 10:38 AM)Black Eagle Wrote:  I must have missed that. My wife and I love Turkey and it is one of the countries we run to when we need a good vacation. We were just there in April and we didn't see any "terrorists everywhere" or "bombs exploding all over" and we traveled all over Turkey. We did hear a bomb explode in a bank in Istanbul in 2005 but the terrorists who set it off were considerate and they did it on a Sunday morning when nobody was there to get hurt. [It did wake me up in the early morning and that pissed me off but I quickly went back to sleep.] One of the travel writers says you are more likely to choke on a tasty kebab than get hurt by a terrorist in Turkey. I believe him.

If you guys ever come to İzmir, let me know Smile


(21-11-2015 05:21 PM)Nishi Karano Kaze Wrote:  Hmmm Nurse vs Izel. .. though call.

Not gonna happen Laugh out load

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22-11-2015, 08:16 AM
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
(22-11-2015 07:42 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I did my 10 years. I also had a break in service already (got out after my first enlistment but went back in 3 months later), so I can't go back in unfortunately. Maybe if the SHTF they'd give me a waiver to let me enlist again. I'd do it in a heartbeat. My wife wouldn't like it though.

Well, 10 years certainly qualifies as putting your money where your mouth is. In my experience, that is not the norm. I meet more people who have no problem sending other peoples' children/spouses/parent/sibling/etc. into harms way with no intention of signing up themselves. Sometimes military force is absolutely necessary. But, it has to be the last resort. In the past, we have been way to willing to send our men and women into combat with no real good reason or national interest.

As for the solution, if there are to be boots on the ground, those boots need to first be from the countries that are directly impacted. Let the Saudi's send their troops in first. Hell, with all these refugees, why not train the men and let them go back and fight. It's their country. Give them the means to go back and defend it. Those really need to be the options before we start sending American soldiers into harms way.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
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22-11-2015, 08:23 AM
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
(22-11-2015 08:16 AM)BnW Wrote:  
(22-11-2015 07:42 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I did my 10 years. I also had a break in service already (got out after my first enlistment but went back in 3 months later), so I can't go back in unfortunately. Maybe if the SHTF they'd give me a waiver to let me enlist again. I'd do it in a heartbeat. My wife wouldn't like it though.

Well, 10 years certainly qualifies as putting your money where your mouth is. In my experience, that is not the norm. I meet more people who have no problem sending other peoples' children/spouses/parent/sibling/etc. into harms way with no intention of signing up themselves. Sometimes military force is absolutely necessary. But, it has to be the last resort. In the past, we have been way to willing to send our men and women into combat with no real good reason or national interest.

As for the solution, if there are to be boots on the ground, those boots need to first be from the countries that are directly impacted. Let the Saudi's send their troops in first. Hell, with all these refugees, why not train the men and let them go back and fight. It's their country. Give them the means to go back and defend it. Those really need to be the options before we start sending American soldiers into harms way.

If you read the other thread about states refusing refugees you would see that I've called for exactly that. Arm the refugees, let them take out ISIS and Assad, and use their countries oil to start a regional powerhouse of a democracy. They deserve it, and sometimes you have to fight for what you want rather than run from it. I only suggested putting American boots on the ground to wipe out these ISIS fucks before they recruit and radicalize some American Muslims which result in more lone wolf type attacks.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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22-11-2015, 08:35 AM
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
The lone wolf scenario is probably inevitable. I'm shocked it hasn't happened already. And, taking out Isis isn't going to change that. You're fighting an ideology, not an army. The ideology lives on long after the proponents of it have died.

What you can do, though, is try to reduce the temptation and allure of this death cult. Showing compassion is one way to do that. This grandstanding on the refugees is probably playing right into the hands of Isis and their recruiters.

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