Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
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26-11-2015, 12:47 PM
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
I don't understand all this worry about terrorists coming into the USA posing as refugees. Getting into the USA is easy. They can walk across thousands of miles of unguarded borders between the US an Mexico or the US and Canada. They can come into the US on student or tourist visas if they are not on a watch list. They can fly in from many countries in small aircraft -- drug dealers do it all the time. They can also take small boats from Mexico up the coast to the U.S., drug dealers do that too. If we think we are going to stop terrorists from entering the USA by stopping Syrian refugees, we are very shortsighted.
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26-11-2015, 01:50 PM
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
(26-11-2015 12:47 PM)Black Eagle Wrote:  They can come into the US on student or tourist visas if they are not on a watch list.

The PRC are actively working on achieving a plurality in our STEM graduate schools. The vetting process for student visas seems to be "Did you get admitted to a US graduate school, do you have a sponsor, and does Interpol have a file on you?" That is far more terrifying than the 2-3 year vetting process for refugees.

(26-11-2015 12:47 PM)Black Eagle Wrote:  Syrian refugees, we are very shortsighted.

It's worse than that. We are so shortsighted that we are blind sided. At least the Senate realizes that the biggest risk right now is not refugees, but radicalized elements coming from Europe on 90-day Visa waivers.

#sigh
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26-11-2015, 02:01 PM
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
(26-11-2015 01:50 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(26-11-2015 12:47 PM)Black Eagle Wrote:  They can come into the US on student or tourist visas if they are not on a watch list.

The PRC are actively working on achieving a plurality in our STEM graduate schools. The vetting process for student visas seems to be "Did you get admitted to a US graduate school, do you have a sponsor, and does Interpol have a file on you?" That is far more terrifying than the 2-3 year vetting process for refugees.

(26-11-2015 12:47 PM)Black Eagle Wrote:  Syrian refugees, we are very shortsighted.

It's worse than that. We are so shortsighted that we are blind sided. At least the Senate realizes that the biggest risk right now is not refugees, but radicalized elements coming from Europe on 90-day Visa waivers.

Posing as a refugee is the worst way for a terrorist to infiltrate a country. You don't really get a say in which country you are sent (if you have family already established in one then your odds are a bit higher but that's all) it takes years to process and you are investigated multiple times.

Posing as a refugee to infiltrate a country as a terrorist is a lot like becoming CEO of Bank of America to rob a bank, sure I suppose you could but it is way more work than a lot of much easier options.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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26-11-2015, 10:20 PM
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
(23-11-2015 07:35 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I used to be just like most of you. I used to feel exactly the same way about immigration, refugees and asylum seekers. We get caught up in that self brainwashing known as secular humanism. I remember arguing with my ex wife's parents about how atheists have no love for anything because they have no god. I couldn't give them an answer about where an atheists morality came from. After reading some books by prominent atheists of the time (this was in the mid 1990's) I learned about secular humanism. For many years I had this holier- than-thou attitude. I donated money to charities, homeless people on the street, and shelters. I had money taken out of my paycheck to different organizations through the Combined Federal Campaign. I even supported illegal immigration because "they just love America and want a better place." I had brainwashed myself to believe that I had to be even more moral and ethical than the christians. I was against nationalism and used to throw around the word xenophobe like most here do. I was trying to prove to everyone that atheists are the best people on earth and they didn't need god to be that way. As I got older, I realized I was only doing those things to prove to religious nuts that I had morality, but in reality I didn't really care. I don't care about immigrants or refugees. I'll occasionally give to a homeless person but I definitely wouldn't donate money to groups or support refugees. I'm against most forms of immigration. I am a supporter of nationalism. Stop looking through the blinders of humanism and realize we need to take care of our own countries before we take care of other people.


tl/dr: I used to pretend to care. Stop looking through the blinders of humanism, and use the blinders of nationalism instead.

That's nice, Beavis. Some of us don't agree, and really don't give a shit about your past history of pretense. You don't understand empathy; I get it, you just don't understand it. It's not something to brag about. You're proud of your willingness to refuse helping people simply because they were born apart from you. That's great! Have a round of applause for this magnificent accomplishment of yours, forgetting how to care for other folks in need.

But if you want to criticize those of us who are willing to help people in need, you'd probably ought to come up with a better story than some tale about how you used to have human empathy but then turned into an asshole. That's really not something I aspire to.
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27-11-2015, 11:40 AM (This post was last modified: 27-11-2015 11:44 AM by Deltabravo.)
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
(20-11-2015 05:33 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  After having already taken in some 2.2 million Syrian refugees compared to the scary scary 2000 suicide bombers waiting to happen the US has taken in, the Turkish response to the attacks on Paris and its effect on their immigration policy is:

"Of course we cannot close our doors. We always keep the doors open," Ali Osman Öztürk, head of Syrian refugee policy in Turkey, said on Thursday during a briefing at the embassy in Washington.

Without directly criticizing the refugee policies of specific countries, Öztürk suggested the international community step up its efforts.

"Do we have time discuss who is a real European? Who is a real American? Who is a real Turk? Who is real Middle Eastern?" he asked. "When we talk about refugee issues, it’s beyond ethnicity, beyond nationality, beyond any religion."


I feel like my country is now seen as the world's biggest pussy. We're armed to the teeth with more guns per capita than the any other country. We have more guns than people. And we're worried about a few peaceful Muslim families causing nationwide havoc? I think I agree with the world. Fucking bunch of fat fraidy cat pussies with guns ready to shoot their own shadow.

Yes, but it didn't stop 9/11.

All that stuff out of Turkey is just BS.

Erdogan wants these people to come in because they are Muslims and he makes them citizens right away so they can vote for him. He wants to be the Islamic leader of the entire world. He has to leave the border open because it allows ISIS fighters to pass into Turkey where they get medical help from a hospital run by his daughter. He gets oil from Syria and he himself is corrupt beyond words, taking bribes and kick-backs.

Saying Turkey has an open border policy for those reasons is a two-faced, hypocritical lie.

What is hilarious about Erdogan and the present AK government under Davutoglu is that Davutoglu is famous for saying "peace with neighbours, peace at home". He is trying to establish himself as the leader of the country since he has all the power but Erdogan has none, and is only now a titular head of state.

But Erdogan uses his Islamic credentials to run roughshod over Davutogle. He turns up at cabinet meetings and tells cabinet ministers what to do. He has installed all his cronies in the courts and prosecution service. He has taken hundreds of millions of dollars in bribes and kickbacks. Davutoglu just won an election with a majority so now has the opportunity to implement his "peace with the neighbour" policy.
So, what is the first thing he does? Shoots down a Russian jet, which is flying over Syria with the invitation of its government, for invading Turkish airspace for 17 seconds. As a result, Russia is ending all kinds of ties with Turkey, further screwing the Turkish economy into the ground. And, to top it off, Russia is sending anti-aircraft missiles to Syria. Turkey has flown 300 or so missions over Syria to bomb Kurds, who aren't Islamic enough, so, hey, I guess Syria will be fine with Russia shooting down Turkish jets over Syria, since they aren't there legally and are killing Syrian civilians. I mean, seriously, the guy takes on the second largest military force in the world who are in Syria by invitation and who are now saying openly that Turkey is behind ISIS.

Gee, what a mess. I thought this thread was about how Turkey is embarrassing the US by dragging them and Nato into an Islamic war against non-Muslims or anyone who isn't Muslim enough.
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27-11-2015, 11:57 AM (This post was last modified: 27-11-2015 12:01 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
(27-11-2015 11:40 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Yes, but it didn't stop 9/11.

One terrorist was here on a student visa, the rest were here on tourist or business visas. None of them was a refugee. Restricting refugees would not have stopped 9/11.

#sigh
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27-11-2015, 03:00 PM
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
(21-11-2015 04:53 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(21-11-2015 02:49 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Inflated stats. They use stats that don't meet the definition of active shooter by the FBI. There is a difference between an active shooter (like a school shooter or library, where people are contained and have no way to escape) and a mass shooting (where 4 or more people are shot, could be domestic violence, drug violence, gang violence).

To lump gang shootings in with active shooters (which are very rare) is dishonesty. If I remember correctly the FBI has only documented 160 "active shooter" events in the last 20-30 years. An active shooter is more comparable to terrorism. The victims are usually unknown to the shooter, unlike a mass shooting where the shooter kills family or rival gang members.

I wasn’t trying to be dishonest, the fact that there are mass killings in the US nearly everyday compares unfavorably with the statistics you posted when looked in the light of citizen safety. In the end a victim of mass shootings is just as dead or wounded as one from an active shooter but I looked it up anyway and found

https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2014/se...0-and-2013

FBI defined active shooting incidents 160 between 2000-2013 or 11.4 incidents annually. Total casualties 1,043.

[Image: fbistats2.jpg?h=401&w=595]

[Image: fbistats1.jpg?h=323&w=595]

The upward trend of active shooting incidents in the US is nothing to take solace in. I brought up the comparison of mass shootings (including “active shooter”) to show that while any terrorist attack, in Turkey or elsewhere is horrific, a comparison to the US homegrown atrocities is not unwarranted and serves as a reminder that all atrocities aren’t commited by foreign terrorists.

Today another incident of an “active shooter” at a Planned Parenthood facility in Colorado Springs. Angry

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post...cials-say/

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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27-11-2015, 05:48 PM
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
(26-11-2015 11:22 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(23-11-2015 08:21 AM)Chas Wrote:  I'm an immigrant and I have guns. Scary much? Drinking Beverage

ummm, yeah. Probably not the best example, Chas.

You don't know that I'm not a deep-cover operative for the Loyal United National and Transnational Independent Canadian Socialists(LUNaTICS), do you? Angry
Or that yakherder might be my contact?
Or that many of are now here, ready for the call?

Be afraid, be very afraid. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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27-11-2015, 05:56 PM
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
(27-11-2015 03:00 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(21-11-2015 04:53 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  I wasn’t trying to be dishonest, the fact that there are mass killings in the US nearly everyday compares unfavorably with the statistics you posted when looked in the light of citizen safety. In the end a victim of mass shootings is just as dead or wounded as one from an active shooter but I looked it up anyway and found

https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2014/se...0-and-2013

FBI defined active shooting incidents 160 between 2000-2013 or 11.4 incidents annually. Total casualties 1,043.

[Image: fbistats2.jpg?h=401&w=595]

[Image: fbistats1.jpg?h=323&w=595]

The upward trend of active shooting incidents in the US is nothing to take solace in. I brought up the comparison of mass shootings (including “active shooter”) to show that while any terrorist attack, in Turkey or elsewhere is horrific, a comparison to the US homegrown atrocities is not unwarranted and serves as a reminder that all atrocities aren’t commited by foreign terrorists.

Today another incident of an “active shooter” at a Planned Parenthood facility in Colorado Springs. Angry

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post...cials-say/

My money is on it being Christian terrorists. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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27-11-2015, 05:57 PM
RE: Turkey embarrasses the fuck out of the US.
(27-11-2015 05:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(26-11-2015 11:22 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  ummm, yeah. Probably not the best example, Chas.

You don't know that I'm not a deep-cover operative for the Loyal United National and Transnational Independent Canadian Socialists(LUNaTICS), do you? Angry
Or that yakherder might be my contact?
Or that many of are now here, ready for the call?

Be afraid, be very afraid. Drinking Beverage




#sigh
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