Tuscon ban on Mexican American Studies
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
16-01-2012, 12:40 PM (This post was last modified: 16-01-2012 12:55 PM by scientician.)
Tuscon ban on Mexican American Studies
I'm just reading about this now:

http://lat.ms/wXB3sP

http://lat.ms/wSWjZc

Can anyone shed light or offer an opinion on this?

In science, "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.

--Stephen Jay Gould
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-01-2012, 01:50 PM
RE: Tuscon ban on Mexican American Studies
(16-01-2012 12:40 PM)scientician Wrote:  I'm just reading about this now:

http://lat.ms/wXB3sP

http://lat.ms/wSWjZc

Can anyone shed light or offer an opinion on this?

It looks very PC: Let's ignore reality because someone might not like it.

The judge is a moron.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-01-2012, 03:05 PM
RE: Tuscon ban on Mexican American Studies
I don't know what the mex-am curricula included but the article says that the concern was that teaching historical events in racial terms promotes groupthink and victimhood. I think that's a reasonable concern. My people emigrated from Italy. The issues they faced, along with other European immigrants, were not dissimilar from the issues faced by legal Mexican immigrants today. I don't think my family would have benefited from an Italian-American studies program. I think it would have put them in more of a them vs us stance, and would have inhibited their integration into America. We had plenty of non-school opportunities to celebrate our heritage, and didn't need school time focused on it. So I look at the Mex-Am issue from that perspective, and don't condemn the judge's decision based on what I know so far.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-01-2012, 03:55 PM
RE: Tuscon ban on Mexican American Studies
(16-01-2012 03:05 PM)Jeff Wrote:  I don't know what the mex-am curricula included but the article says that the concern was that teaching historical events in racial terms promotes groupthink and victimhood. I think that's a reasonable concern. My people emigrated from Italy. The issues they faced, along with other European immigrants, were not dissimilar from the issues faced by legal Mexican immigrants today. I don't think my family would have benefited from an Italian-American studies program. I think it would have put them in more of a them vs us stance, and would have inhibited their integration into America. We had plenty of non-school opportunities to celebrate our heritage, and didn't need school time focused on it. So I look at the Mex-Am issue from that perspective, and don't condemn the judge's decision based on what I know so far.

My point was that for your ancestors it was an us vs. them thing, but no longer is.
The study of immigration in the U.S. is a study of prejudice, of overcoming prejudice, of assimilation, of hard work, of successes. It all really happened.

Denying the truth by not talking about it is about the most chicken-shit PC thing I've ever heard of - and the judge really is a fucking idiot.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-01-2012, 04:47 PM
RE: Tuscon ban on Mexican American Studies
(16-01-2012 03:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-01-2012 03:05 PM)Jeff Wrote:  I don't know what the mex-am curricula included but the article says that the concern was that teaching historical events in racial terms promotes groupthink and victimhood. I think that's a reasonable concern. My people emigrated from Italy. The issues they faced, along with other European immigrants, were not dissimilar from the issues faced by legal Mexican immigrants today. I don't think my family would have benefited from an Italian-American studies program. I think it would have put them in more of a them vs us stance, and would have inhibited their integration into America. We had plenty of non-school opportunities to celebrate our heritage, and didn't need school time focused on it. So I look at the Mex-Am issue from that perspective, and don't condemn the judge's decision based on what I know so far.

My point was that for your ancestors it was an us vs. them thing, but no longer is.
The study of immigration in the U.S. is a study of prejudice, of overcoming prejudice, of assimilation, of hard work, of successes. It all really happened.

Denying the truth by not talking about it is about the most chicken-shit PC thing I've ever heard of - and the judge really is a fucking idiot.

And who says that the American curriculum is not divisive itself? I can kind of get behind the idea of not having a separate class but this stuff must be taught to all students in other classes. And they clearly are trying to stifle something because they freaking banned the books! Censorship in education? Progress...

In science, "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.

--Stephen Jay Gould
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-01-2012, 05:33 PM (This post was last modified: 16-01-2012 05:34 PM by Jeff.)
RE: Tuscon ban on Mexican American Studies
(16-01-2012 03:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  Denying the truth by not talking about it ...

I don't see them denying any truth. They're just not changing the curricula.


(16-01-2012 04:47 PM)scientician Wrote:  And they clearly are trying to stifle something because they freaking banned the books!

Where does it discuss banning the books? I didn't see that.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-01-2012, 05:34 PM
RE: Tuscon ban on Mexican American Studies
(16-01-2012 05:33 PM)Jeff Wrote:  
(16-01-2012 03:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  Denying the truth by not talking about it ...

I don't see them denying any truth. They're just not changing the curricula.

The reason given is that teaching this would be divisive. "Don't talk about it, it's too upsetting."

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-01-2012, 05:41 PM
RE: Tuscon ban on Mexican American Studies
(16-01-2012 05:33 PM)Jeff Wrote:  Where does it discuss banning the books? I didn't see that.

In the supplementary material Big Grin

http://bit.ly/ytKSlC

In science, "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.

--Stephen Jay Gould
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-01-2012, 05:52 PM
RE: Tuscon ban on Mexican American Studies
Hmmm, while I see what you guys are upset about, I suspect there is more to this case than meets the eye so I won't comment further until I've learned more.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-01-2012, 08:49 PM
RE: Tuscon ban on Mexican American Studies
It's all my fault. Big Grin

I didn't even read it. I live in Phoenix. I know the attitudes around here, and their enhancement as a function of political will. I read 4 words, it's craziness; that's my position. i'm moving.

[Image: klingon_zps7e68578a.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes houseofcantor's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: