Twitter suspends alt-right accounts
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18-11-2016, 11:06 AM (This post was last modified: 18-11-2016 11:27 AM by Full Circle.)
RE: Twitter suspends alt-right accounts
(18-11-2016 09:34 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 08:33 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Earlier I gave examples of pre-internet classifieds recruiting for ISIS and supremacists groups, from what you say above you would have run those in the newspaper correct? I’d like an answer.
My answer is "Yes, I would have." If someone pays for a classified ad, a newspaper should feel obligated to run it so long as it doesn’t violate any existing laws (e.g. if the ad contains child pornography).
Interesting.

(18-11-2016 09:34 AM)‘Vosur Wrote:  I’ve got a couple questions I’d like you to answer as well: If you owned a bakery, would you bake a cake for the wedding of a white supremacist couple, with a swastika decoration and the slogan “All Jews must die” on top?
No I would not because I consider that to be “hate speech”. If tomorrow laws were passed that said that one could not discriminate because of hate speech then we can revisit the topic at that time.

(18-11-2016 09:34 AM)‘Vosur’ Wrote:  Do you think that a bakery should be allowed to refuse to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple?
There are existing laws in the US that prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation so the answer would be no.

(18-11-2016 09:34 AM)‘Vosur’ Wrote:  In the interest of transparency, what I’m trying to do here is establish how far you think the right of a business to refuse servicing their customers should go.
It sounds to me like you don’t see a difference between discrimination for inherent human traits such as race, gender, sexual orientation, age etc. and placing constraints on human actions such as hate speech.

(18-11-2016 09:34 AM)‘Vosur’ Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 08:33 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Is it possible you are conflating legal rights with natural rights? Consider
"Legal rights are those bestowed onto a person by a given legal system (i.e., rights that can be modified, repealed, and restrained by human laws).
Natural rights are those that are not dependent on the laws or customs of any particular culture or government, and therefore universal and inalienable (i.e., rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws).”
As I've said in my response to EK, I'm well aware that Twitter is legally allowed to censor whatever they want and that "free speech", in the legal sense, does not cover speech in private places. I'm fine with the existing legal framework, it's the attitude of my fellow citizens that I think needs to change. Twitter, for instance, given their size and influence, should feel a moral obligation to provide an open platform for discussion rather than censoring certain points of view to further an agenda.
I counter that Twitter in this case has a moral obligation not to provide a platform for hate speech.

(18-11-2016 09:34 AM)‘Vosur’ Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 08:33 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  If we were to follow your line of thinking that people should, “strive to defend (speech) regardless of whether or not they are legally obligated to do so”, should it then not follow that we should also strive to defend all actions regardless of whether or not we are legally obligated to do so?. After all we can make a case that our actions are a form of expression just as speech is can we not? Dance is a form of expression but so is beating up a person no? Is gay-bashing not an expression of deeply held beliefs? Should we as a society “strive to defend” this freedom of expression as well?
No, FC, allowing people to say that they don't like gay people does not mean that we should also allow them to beat up said gay people. Why do you respond with such an inane line of questioning when you already what my answer is going to be?
To be honest I really have no idea how far your support for free speech and personal expression goes. I’m happy to see you have limits.

(18-11-2016 09:34 AM)‘Vosur’ Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 08:33 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  You seem to be arguing that all speech, and here I make the case that as a corollary all actions of expression as well [...]
Let me stop you right there because the rest of your post is based on this false premise. Again: Speech is not equivalent to action. You're not an idiot, there should be no need for me to tell you this.
Thank you for pointing out that I’m not an idiot, you have no idea how relieved I am.

Anyway, the two are sometimes used synonymously and in the interest of transparency, what I’m trying to do here is establish how far you think the right to express yourself via speech and expression go.
"Freedom of speech is the right to articulate one’s opinions and ideas without fear of government retaliation or censorship, or societal sanction. The term freedom of expression is sometimes used synonymously, but includes any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used.”

I hope you realize I’m not for censorship in the public domain as long as laws aren’t being broken, but I support the right of private venues to determine for themselves what is or isn’t acceptable.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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18-11-2016, 11:09 AM
RE: Twitter suspends alt-right accounts
(18-11-2016 10:05 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 09:51 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  As for the second part, I don't even think I held public opinion on it. Anyhow, it doesn't really 'bother' me, if I were to pick a word. I just don't like that approach to problem-solving. Why should I be potentially silenced? The individual could click away, ignore it, use the forum feature to make all posts from me invisible, ignore PMs, etc. The Admins could also just determine that the person is an asshole and ban him/her if it was truly abusive stuff. Why not?
As far as I can tell, it has to do with an aversion towards personal responsibility and accountability. There's definitely a lot of that in this place.

You can say that again.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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18-11-2016, 01:53 PM (This post was last modified: 18-11-2016 01:59 PM by Metazoa Zeke.)
RE: Twitter suspends alt-right accounts
(18-11-2016 10:48 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  It's not that they actually care about what is true or not, they're interested in catering to the people who agree with them. It's a marketing tactic.

And yet their losing money. Kinda a horrible tactic seeing as people are starting to leave twitter on their own. To add, a christian book store wouldn't mind selling a book about the bible to an atheist, they just want they fucking money.

(18-11-2016 10:48 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I doubt Twitter, or your local Christian book store, give a fuck about your opinion if you are not their target audience. And if you don't like what Twitter is doing? Don't use Twitter. It's why I don't shop at Christian bookstores. They're not offering a service I'm interested in.

Here is the problem with that. Now you are right about not using something you don't like, but when more and more people do the same a problem arises. How do we get people to use our product? As I said before people are leaving twitter. Not because they are alt-right, but because a website that said it would be for free speech, decided that free speech isn't a thing anymore.

To add to that, there is a glaring hypocrisy to what twitter is doing. The christian book store will sell christian books the whole time and not go towards atheist, muslim, hindu, etc books. Twitter however is willing to block "hate speech" they see that "bothers" people, yet when a person calls for the death and/or harm of white people or are a muslim saying how horrible gays are to islam, nothing happens to them.

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18-11-2016, 01:55 PM
RE: Twitter suspends alt-right accounts
The 1st amendment guarantees you the RIGHT to your opinions and speech, not an audience for them.
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18-11-2016, 02:09 PM
RE: Twitter suspends alt-right accounts
So, what do you think of facebook and google's new policy of banning sites that publish untrue stories and memes?

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18-11-2016, 02:12 PM
RE: Twitter suspends alt-right accounts
(18-11-2016 02:09 PM)Dom Wrote:  So, what do you think of facebook and google's new policy of banning sites that publish untrue stories and memes?

That is even more retarded.

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18-11-2016, 02:13 PM
RE: Twitter suspends alt-right accounts
(18-11-2016 01:53 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 10:48 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  It's not that they actually care about what is true or not, they're interested in catering to the people who agree with them. It's a marketing tactic.

And yet their losing money. Kinda a horrible tactic seeing as people are starting to leave twitter on their own. To add, a christian book store wouldn't mind selling a book about the bible to an atheist, they just want they fucking money.

(18-11-2016 10:48 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I doubt Twitter, or your local Christian book store, give a fuck about your opinion if you are not their target audience. And if you don't like what Twitter is doing? Don't use Twitter. It's why I don't shop at Christian bookstores. They're not offering a service I'm interested in.

Here is the problem with that. Now you are right about not using something you don't like, but when more and more people do the same a problem arises. How do we get people to use our product? As I said before people are leaving twitter. Not because they are alt-right, but because a website that said it would be for free speech, decided that free speech isn't a thing anymore.

To add to that, there is a glaring hypocrisy to what twitter is doing. The christian book store will sell christian books the whole time and not go towards atheist, muslim, hindu, etc books. Twitter however is willing to block "hate speech" they see that "bothers" people, yet when a person calls for the death and/or harm of white people or are a muslim saying how horrible gays are to islam, nothing happens to them.

Twitter, Google, Amazon, et al. offer a free service to make their money from ads. Anything which they see as adversely affecting their advertising base they will rightly eliminate. Now you can disagree with whether or not what Twitter is doing helps or hurts their bottom line, but they've done the math, I haven't.

#sigh
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18-11-2016, 02:16 PM
RE: Twitter suspends alt-right accounts
(18-11-2016 02:13 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 01:53 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  And yet their losing money. Kinda a horrible tactic seeing as people are starting to leave twitter on their own. To add, a christian book store wouldn't mind selling a book about the bible to an atheist, they just want they fucking money.


Here is the problem with that. Now you are right about not using something you don't like, but when more and more people do the same a problem arises. How do we get people to use our product? As I said before people are leaving twitter. Not because they are alt-right, but because a website that said it would be for free speech, decided that free speech isn't a thing anymore.

To add to that, there is a glaring hypocrisy to what twitter is doing. The christian book store will sell christian books the whole time and not go towards atheist, muslim, hindu, etc books. Twitter however is willing to block "hate speech" they see that "bothers" people, yet when a person calls for the death and/or harm of white people or are a muslim saying how horrible gays are to islam, nothing happens to them.

Twitter, Google, Amazon, et al. offer a free service to make their money from ads. Anything which they see as adversely affecting their advertising base they will rightly eliminate. Now you can disagree with whether or not what Twitter is doing helps or hurts their bottom line, but they've done the math, I haven't.

In a country that is 60% white, how does having racism towards whites help with the advertiser friendly image?

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18-11-2016, 02:19 PM
RE: Twitter suspends alt-right accounts
(18-11-2016 02:16 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 02:13 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Twitter, Google, Amazon, et al. offer a free service to make their money from ads. Anything which they see as adversely affecting their advertising base they will rightly eliminate. Now you can disagree with whether or not what Twitter is doing helps or hurts their bottom line, but they've done the math, I haven't.

In a country that is 60% white, how does having racism towards whites help with the advertiser friendly image?

Do you expect someone to hack their accountant's computers to answer that question?

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18-11-2016, 02:27 PM
RE: Twitter suspends alt-right accounts
(18-11-2016 02:19 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 02:16 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  In a country that is 60% white, how does having racism towards whites help with the advertiser friendly image?

Do you expect someone to hack their accountant's computers to answer that question?

Nah, as cool as that would be. But the reason I ask is because they are doing it for an ideological stand point. Progressives(as they call it) seem to be the holders of power when it comes to culture right now. No different than if this was in the 80's, 90's, or even early 2000 twitter would be banning atheist because the religious right would be in power.

In short, it is about money, but they are going off with the ideology that are in power.

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