Two good things religion gave us
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19-01-2014, 02:44 PM
RE: Two good things religion gave us
Architects, artists, artisans, musicians acd craftsmen would have reached great heights with or without the influence of Big Brother Church. The fact is that BBC hijacked them and their talents and the claim that religion "gave us" these things is a correlation-causation fallacy.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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19-01-2014, 02:47 PM
RE: Two good things religion gave us
(19-01-2014 02:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  Yes, it's good stuff - but maybe we could have had better. Consider

Sure, maybe. *However*, what we got is still pretty cool, even if weird.

Anyway if it wasn't the church it woulda been some kinda organised religion. It's too good a tool for the state not to appropriate. All those cathedrals were built with public money by temporal rulers to show off their power and wealth, and incidentally drive home the point to Joe Peasant that he was a very insignificant boy indeed and that his place in the universe was licking the boot-heels of his betters.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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19-01-2014, 02:50 PM
RE: Two good things religion gave us
(19-01-2014 02:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  [Image: canterbury-cathedral-nave-cc-mayuresh-flickr.jpg]



I could see buildings like that being government or commercial buildings in a world without BBC. Or the grandest music halls ever (which they actually are anyway)



Of course, the standard comment around Taq-Land when one encounters such a magnificent building is "oh, look - what a lovely brothel!"

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19-01-2014, 02:54 PM
RE: Two good things religion gave us
I'm with Taq on this. If religion weren't around, the human mind and creative force would still be there.

Lets not forget the religious inspired destructive force - feats in torture devices that are now showcased on websites or sold to the highest bidder on ebay. Yes, a lot of it was used in the name of religion. They are works of craftsmanship in their own rights. How is it that they're not put on the same pedestal as religious art? Both were inspired by the same thing.

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19-01-2014, 03:53 PM
RE: Two good things religion gave us
I understand your points Smile And I am in no way saying that without religion there be nothing built that's amazing.

I just find the buildings we do have, particularly the ancient ones, a marvel. And I definitely do not forget all the awful things religion has inspired. If it were a choice, the art, buildings and music would be sacrificed in a moment if it meant the prevention of the attrocities performed in the name of a God. But, as history cannot be changed (until some bright individual discovers how to time travel), then all we can do is fight the negatives and appreciate the small good things that came out of it.

"God is a thought who makes crooked all that is straight." - Nietzsche

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19-01-2014, 04:15 PM
RE: Two good things religion gave us
(19-01-2014 10:48 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I'll give you 8. Tongue

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Trappist Beer!!! Drooling

Hell ya! Just when I felt I could think of nothing....you opened my eyes!


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19-01-2014, 04:30 PM
RE: Two good things religion gave us
(19-01-2014 04:15 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(19-01-2014 10:48 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I'll give you 8. Tongue

[Image: trappist.jpg]

Trappist Beer!!! Drooling

Hell ya! Just when I felt I could think of nothing....you opened my eyes!

Good one! I'd love a " Westmalle Tripel " right now....nice.

“The first duty of a man is to think for himself” ― José Martí
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19-01-2014, 04:36 PM
RE: Two good things religion gave us
(19-01-2014 03:53 PM)SpaceMonkey Wrote:  I understand your points Smile And I am in no way saying that without religion there be nothing built that's amazing.

I just find the buildings we do have, particularly the ancient ones, a marvel. And I definitely do not forget all the awful things religion has inspired. If it were a choice, the art, buildings and music would be sacrificed in a moment if it meant the prevention of the attrocities performed in the name of a God. But, as history cannot be changed (until some bright individual discovers how to time travel), then all we can do is fight the negatives and appreciate the small good things that came out of it.

I don't think you're saying that without religion there'd be nothing built that's amazing.

BTW the time travel thing - there's a theory that the Titanic sank as there were too many time travelers visiting it and the ship was too heavy - never mind the iceberg. Tongue

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19-01-2014, 04:43 PM
RE: Two good things religion gave us
(18-01-2014 05:56 PM)SpaceMonkey Wrote:  You know, one of the only things I am grateful for that religion has given the world is the architecture and music (and the inspiration that has given the world some awesome literature based on it).

Close to where I live and closer to where I am currently working is Durham Cathedral. It's a beautiful building, over 900 years old. York cathedral is older and bigger. The building of Newcastle Cathedral started about a decade before Durham. The cathedrals of Britain, the churches (particularly the old ones) are some of the most beautiful structures we have. The main sections are often built to enhance acoustics, the ceiling height and shape in particular. I love cathedrals and am quite awed by them (no.... the awe is not divine).

Musically, many great composers have created beautiful works based on religion. Miserere Mei, Deus is a wonderful piece. I'd listen to that over much of the crap that is churned out today!

I had the pleasure of being in Durham Cathedral whilst the choir was rehearsing a few months ago. I loved it. It was quite haunting too.

There's a lot of old architecture in Britain (and across much of Europe and Asia), a lot of it no longer whole or standing (there's an old priory in a town in Norfolk where I used to live that was 10% wall, 90% pits and foundations), that is interesting to see and to learn about.

The sad thing is, there's some individuals - usually young, ignorant and with little respect for history or its structures - who have been known to vandalise these historic places. After all, who cares? God isn't real anyway! Despite my dislike for religion itself and my disbelief in any deity, it boils my proverbial piss at what people do to the buildings (standing or no).

I hope that if in some near or distant future where religion no longer exists, people will maintain a level of respect for ancient cathedrals and churches and not destroy them in pettiness, ignorance or sheer shit-headedness.

I sometimes wonder what architecture and classical music we would have now if religion never was. That would be an interesting thing to see!

Smile

I see religion as more of a correlative vehicle, not a cause. If it hadn't been there, advancements would have been made anyway, and a lot of scared music had secular origins. It's just where humanity was at the same time as music and architecture was at the time. Beethoven used the poetry of Schiller for the Ninth Symphony. Schiller was not responsible for the Ninth Symphony. I don't buy the assumptions. The reason the French built huge Gothic cathedrals was they were jealous and competitive with their neighboring towns. They *said* it was religious, but the motivation was human.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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19-01-2014, 04:55 PM
RE: Two good things religion gave us
Never heard that before Cheap! Haha!

Bucky, Beef Oven is cool. I wish I new more about the inspirations and links with those composers. With regards to jealousy: Humans are indeed... Human! Tongue

I enjoy how much I do learn in this forum. Even the little snippets Smile

"God is a thought who makes crooked all that is straight." - Nietzsche

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