Tx Grand Jury Clears Planned Parenthood, indicts its accusers
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
27-01-2016, 06:06 AM
RE: Tx Grand Jury Clears Planned Parenthood, indicts its accusers
(26-01-2016 11:33 PM)purpledaisies Wrote:  We can't just let people fake evidence against anyone or a company just because you don't agree with their beliefs or their life style.

I wasn't suggesting they get away with it. There is a long way between letting people fake evidence and 20 years in prison.

DLJ - they didn't incite violence in any legal sense in the Colorado shooting so prison sentences are not even going to be an issue. They aren't even going to be charged for that. There are circumstances where inciting violence can land you in jail, but the threat has to be immediate. If you rile up a crowd and tell them to go attack someone, you could be held accountable. But, the PP shooting in Colorado is not that case.

Thumpalumpacus - there is no doubt they would go bankrupt and, as Heatheness points out, would never be able to repay the debt regardless. Just too much money. But, bankruptcy is not a get-out-of-jail free card on civil judgments. They would lose everything and the liability may not get discharged. It's been a very long time since I've done any bankruptcy work and I honestly don't remember all the details, but you can't just declare bankruptcy to avoid paying off a civil judgment.

Heatheness - I'm not an expert on Texas law but generally sentences won't run concurrently for non-capital offenses. They will try them for everything they can but you usually get the sentence for the biggest crime and that's it, although with less chance to get out early. Is it Black Eagle who was a criminal attorney? I never did any criminal work so he could probably comment on this better than I. I looked up some articles and they all seem to be saying they can get 20 years but I'd be shocked if that was the case.

Regarding your last point, so far PP has not been defunded. I know there are several state efforts underway specifically because of the lies from this group, but hopefully these indictments change that. Per a NY Times article I read on the train last night after I saw your comments, opinion polls show that the general public is greatly in favor of funding PP and are not happy with these efforts to kill it. So, hopefully there is some backlash at the polls this November.

Finally, I'm not condoning what these people did. I'm glad they were indicted and have no problem with them going to jail. But, 20 years is ridiculous. The law is not about assuaging hurt feelings or personal outrage. People do a lot of outrageous things but we can't run a society on how we feel at our angriest moments. Our current incarceration rates are a result of doing exactly that.

I'm all for punishing people for committing crimes. I'm against this "lock 'em up and throw away the key" mentality and that is how I see this. 20 years is not fitting the crime.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes BnW's post
27-01-2016, 06:33 AM
RE: Tx Grand Jury Clears Planned Parenthood, indicts its accusers
(27-01-2016 06:06 AM)BnW Wrote:  Finally, I'm not condoning what these people did. I'm glad they were indicted and have no problem with them going to jail. But, 20 years is ridiculous. The law is not about assuaging hurt feelings or personal outrage. People do a lot of outrageous things but we can't run a society on how we feel at our angriest moments. Our current incarceration rates are a result of doing exactly that.

I'm all for punishing people for committing crimes. I'm against this "lock 'em up and throw away the key" mentality and that is how I see this. 20 years is not fitting the crime.

I agree with much of what you say. However the charges are not simply for making a fake video. As noted above by other posters, the serious charges are related to setting up fake businesses and lying on government forms.

Those are serious charges. Fake companies can be used in numerous illegal schemes, including tax dodges, money laundering, etc.

You are right about the incarceration rates and prosecution tactics in this country. But in this case, I think it is justified.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Fatbaldhobbit's post
27-01-2016, 06:58 AM
RE: Tx Grand Jury Clears Planned Parenthood, indicts its accusers
I understand the nature of the crimes. And, I agree they should go to jail. All I'm questioning is the idea you can do 20 years for the first offense of a non violent crime.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-01-2016, 07:02 AM
RE: Tx Grand Jury Clears Planned Parenthood, indicts its accusers
I believe the 20 year sentence isn't quite what you're thinking....

It's if they got maximum on ALL charges and they added them up......

It's unlikely that would happen.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes onlinebiker's post
27-01-2016, 07:05 AM
RE: Tx Grand Jury Clears Planned Parenthood, indicts its accusers
(27-01-2016 07:02 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I believe the 20 year sentence isn't quite what you're thinking....

It's if they got maximum on ALL charges and they added them up......

It's unlikely that would happen.

Actually, that is exactly what I thought 20 years meant. I doubt they even get 10 years.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-01-2016, 09:23 AM
RE: Tx Grand Jury Clears Planned Parenthood, indicts its accusers
(27-01-2016 06:06 AM)BnW Wrote:  
(26-01-2016 11:33 PM)purpledaisies Wrote:  We can't just let people fake evidence against anyone or a company just because you don't agree with their beliefs or their life style.

I wasn't suggesting they get away with it. There is a long way between letting people fake evidence and 20 years in prison.

DLJ - they didn't incite violence in any legal sense in the Colorado shooting so prison sentences are not even going to be an issue. They aren't even going to be charged for that. There are circumstances where inciting violence can land you in jail, but the threat has to be immediate. If you rile up a crowd and tell them to go attack someone, you could be held accountable. But, the PP shooting in Colorado is not that case.

Thumpalumpacus - there is no doubt they would go bankrupt and, as Heatheness points out, would never be able to repay the debt regardless. Just too much money. But, bankruptcy is not a get-out-of-jail free card on civil judgments. They would lose everything and the liability may not get discharged. It's been a very long time since I've done any bankruptcy work and I honestly don't remember all the details, but you can't just declare bankruptcy to avoid paying off a civil judgment.

Heatheness - I'm not an expert on Texas law but generally sentences won't run concurrently for non-capital offenses. They will try them for everything they can but you usually get the sentence for the biggest crime and that's it, although with less chance to get out early. Is it Black Eagle who was a criminal attorney? I never did any criminal work so he could probably comment on this better than I. I looked up some articles and they all seem to be saying they can get 20 years but I'd be shocked if that was the case.

Regarding your last point, so far PP has not been defunded. I know there are several state efforts underway specifically because of the lies from this group, but hopefully these indictments change that. Per a NY Times article I read on the train last night after I saw your comments, opinion polls show that the general public is greatly in favor of funding PP and are not happy with these efforts to kill it. So, hopefully there is some backlash at the polls this November.

Finally, I'm not condoning what these people did. I'm glad they were indicted and have no problem with them going to jail. But, 20 years is ridiculous. The law is not about assuaging hurt feelings or personal outrage. People do a lot of outrageous things but we can't run a society on how we feel at our angriest moments. Our current incarceration rates are a result of doing exactly that.

I'm all for punishing people for committing crimes. I'm against this "lock 'em up and throw away the key" mentality and that is how I see this. 20 years is not fitting the crime.


I understand your position and you, of course, have a right to your opinion...

I simply disagree. I think this is the exactly right case to "throw the key away".

[Image: dnw9krH.jpg?4]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-01-2016, 09:28 AM
RE: Tx Grand Jury Clears Planned Parenthood, indicts its accusers
That's ok. We can disagree. Different points of view make the world an interesting place.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like BnW's post
27-01-2016, 11:57 AM
RE: Tx Grand Jury Clears Planned Parenthood, indicts its accusers
How does one resume life after 20 years of prison? Consider Does one have resources? Can one find work? I wonder...

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-01-2016, 12:35 PM
RE: Tx Grand Jury Clears Planned Parenthood, indicts its accusers
(27-01-2016 06:06 AM)BnW Wrote:  Thumpalumpacus - there is no doubt they would go bankrupt and, as Heatheness points out, would never be able to repay the debt regardless. Just too much money. But, bankruptcy is not a get-out-of-jail free card on civil judgments. They would lose everything and the liability may not get discharged. It's been a very long time since I've done any bankruptcy work and I honestly don't remember all the details, but you can't just declare bankruptcy to avoid paying off a civil judgment.

[Emphasis added -- Thump]

And in that eventuality as well, justice would not be served, no? What use then is a fine?

I agree with Heatheness: they should be prosecuted for every crime with reasonable evidence of commission. As for serving the sentences concurrently, I've never been a big fan of that, but if that's what's handed down, I won't be upset.

My prediction is that they will not be convicted of anything. There will be at least one asshole on the jury who will sympathize with their cause enough to engage in nullification.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Thumpalumpacus's post
27-01-2016, 12:38 PM
RE: Tx Grand Jury Clears Planned Parenthood, indicts its accusers
(27-01-2016 12:35 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(27-01-2016 06:06 AM)BnW Wrote:  Thumpalumpacus - there is no doubt they would go bankrupt and, as Heatheness points out, would never be able to repay the debt regardless. Just too much money. But, bankruptcy is not a get-out-of-jail free card on civil judgments. They would lose everything and the liability may not get discharged. It's been a very long time since I've done any bankruptcy work and I honestly don't remember all the details, but you can't just declare bankruptcy to avoid paying off a civil judgment.

[Emphasis added -- Thump]

And in that eventuality as well, justice would not be served, no? What use then is a fine?

I agree with Heatheness: they should be prosecuted for every crime with reasonable evidence of commission. As for serving the sentences concurrently, I've never been a big fan of that, but if that's what's handed down, I won't be upset.

My prediction is that they will not be convicted of anything. There will be at least one asshole on the jury who will sympathize with their cause enough to engage in nullification.

I would love to be in the courtroom to hear the jury questioning and selection.

[Image: dnw9krH.jpg?4]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Heatheness's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: