Tx Grand Jury Clears Planned Parenthood, indicts its accusers
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29-01-2016, 09:34 AM
RE: Tx Grand Jury Clears Planned Parenthood, indicts its accusers
(29-01-2016 08:31 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 08:28 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  That's true enough. We know everything's bigger in Texas, even the ignorance. Sad

Not the textbooks though.
Well, the Bible is relatively big.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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29-01-2016, 10:48 AM
RE: Tx Grand Jury Clears Planned Parenthood, indicts its accusers
(29-01-2016 07:43 AM)BnW Wrote:  But, my point is, you are focusing on the headline. The reality is they are not getting multiple decades in jail, no matter what you or I may think about it.

Then why in the world were you complaining about exactly that? Your first post in this thread:

(26-01-2016 09:38 PM)BnW Wrote:  That's a damn shame.

Actually, it's ridiculous. What did he do that warrants that kind of prison term? If that's really the potential sentence, we have some fucked up priorities in this country. 20 -25 YEARS? That can't be right. It may be accurate but it's not right.

... focused on the headline.

(26-01-2016 09:38 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 02:42 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  In what jurisdiction?

All of them.

So you don't think it varies with mandatory sentencing laws, prosecutorial workload or budgets, evidence at hand, whether the DA is up for re-election, or any of a thousand other considerations? You're simply going to assert that every jurisdiction prosecutes the most serious offense and lets the others lie?

(26-01-2016 09:38 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 02:42 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  With which prosecutor?

All of them.

See above.

(26-01-2016 09:38 PM)BnW Wrote:  I think you're in for a pretty big disappointment if you expect the ultimate reality to meet the current headline, Texas law or not. And, given it is Texas - and I suspect they have a lot of sympathy for what they did - I don't think getting a conviction for any of the charges is a slam dunk. This is just an indictment. It's not a conviction. There has to be a trial. And, as I said before, anything can happen in a trial.

Hey, thanks for belaboring the obvious. It might surprise you to know that I'm aware of the difference between an indictment and a conviction.

Also, I'm not expecting twenty years to be handed down in the event of a conviction. I'm saying that you carping about it is silly.

(26-01-2016 09:38 PM)BnW Wrote:  Anyway, I still think you are going off on a point I never really intended to make. My only point, for like the 10th time, is that 20 years for a first time offender who commits a non-violent crime is lunacy.

Again, you insist on using the singular "a", when in fact multiple crimes are alleged to have been committed. 20 years for a first-timer who commits multiple crimes may well be called-for.
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30-01-2016, 04:21 PM
RE: Tx Grand Jury Clears Planned Parenthood, indicts its accusers
(29-01-2016 10:48 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Then why in the world were you complaining about exactly that? Your first post in this thread:

That wasn't a complaint. It was a comment. There's a difference. And, my comment wasn't about this particular situation but a general observation that 20 years for a first time offender for a non-violent crime is ridiculous. Because, it is.

And yes, it was a comment based on the headline. I know it most likely won't happen but it's crazy that it can.

(29-01-2016 10:48 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  So you don't think it varies with mandatory sentencing laws, prosecutorial workload or budgets, evidence at hand, whether the DA is up for re-election, or any of a thousand other considerations? You're simply going to assert that every jurisdiction prosecutes the most serious offense and lets the others lie?

I never said they let the others lie. You misunderstood. What I said is they move cases through the system as quickly as they can and avoid going to trial as often as they can. That is a universal truism of prosecutors across the land.

Over the past 30 years our "tough on crime" stance has criminalized an incredible amount of behavior, and the "war on drugs" as guaranteed that prosecutors are working full out all the time. I'm sure if you really dug into it you could find some jurisdiction somewhere in the US that has a much higher trial rate than the norm is and bucking the trend. But, does that really matter? It certainly doesn't make the comment any less true if it turns out Fucking Nowhere, South Dakota with a population of 5,000 people takes every single defendant to trial.

(29-01-2016 10:48 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Hey, thanks for belaboring the obvious. It might surprise you to know that I'm aware of the difference between an indictment and a conviction.

Congrats on passing basic Civics 101.

(29-01-2016 10:48 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Also, I'm not expecting twenty years to be handed down in the event of a conviction. I'm saying that you carping about it is silly.

I wasn't carping on it. I made a single comment. You responded to it. I responded to you. And so on and so on. If the discussion is a problem for you, you are free to stop replying.

(29-01-2016 10:48 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Again, you insist on using the singular "a", when in fact multiple crimes are alleged to have been committed. 20 years for a first-timer who commits multiple crimes may well be called-for.

Yes, I get that. And, again, the multiple charges are done as a matter of course. The fact is that none of them are violent crimes, and they are all part of a single set of circumstances with a common victim. It's one actual crime. That the charges are broken into piece parts really doesn't change the basic point.

And, the basic point is, again, that 20 years for a first time conviction for a non-violent crime is ridiculous.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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31-01-2016, 12:41 AM (This post was last modified: 31-01-2016 12:45 AM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Tx Grand Jury Clears Planned Parenthood, indicts its accusers
(30-01-2016 04:21 PM)BnW Wrote:  That wasn't a complaint. It was a comment. There's a difference. And, my comment wasn't about this particular situation but a general observation that 20 years for a first time offender for a non-violent crime is ridiculous. Because, it is.

This is a false dichotomy. A comment can most certainly be a complaint. The latter is a subset of the former. Your complaint is a comment. Your comment was a complaint.

Not all polygons are triangles. All triangles are polygons. Got it now?

(30-01-2016 04:21 PM)BnW Wrote:  And yes, it was a comment based on the headline. I know it most likely won't happen but it's crazy that it can.

... and here you are criticizing me for allegedly doing the exact thing you've just admitted to doing:

(29-01-2016 07:43 AM)BnW Wrote:  But, my point is, you are focusing on the headline. The reality is they are not getting multiple decades in jail, no matter what you or I may think about it.

Physician, heal thyself.

(30-01-2016 04:21 PM)BnW Wrote:  I never said they let the others lie. You misunderstood. What I said is they move cases through the system as quickly as they can and avoid going to trial as often as they can. That is a universal truism of prosecutors across the land.

Over the past 30 years our "tough on crime" stance has criminalized an incredible amount of behavior, and the "war on drugs" as guaranteed that prosecutors are working full out all the time. I'm sure if you really dug into it you could find some jurisdiction somewhere in the US that has a much higher trial rate than the norm is and bucking the trend. But, does that really matter? It certainly doesn't make the comment any less true if it turns out Fucking Nowhere, South Dakota with a population of 5,000 people takes every single defendant to trial.

Of course not, and I have not argued otherwise. This is a strawman you're busy swatting here.

If the prosecutors in this case opt to offer a plea so that the defendants don't serve twenty years, fine. I understand that that is needed, especially in busy jurisdictions. If said plea results in some charges being pled out with no additional penalty, great. But if the defense do opt to go to trial absent any plea, the prosecution should charge every crime with sufficient supporting evidence.

(30-01-2016 04:21 PM)BnW Wrote:  Congrats on passing basic Civics 101.

Condescension duly noted. Perhaps the discussion would go smoother if you shitcanned the attitude ... amongst other things? I haven't talked down to you yet. But I will make change in the coin tendered.

(30-01-2016 04:21 PM)BnW Wrote:  I wasn't carping on it. I made a single comment. You responded to it. I responded to you. And so on and so on. If the discussion is a problem for you, you are free to stop replying.

Fair enough -- "carping" is not quite the right word to describe your resolute incomprehension. Perhaps a better term would be "obtuse"?

(30-01-2016 04:21 PM)BnW Wrote:  Yes, I get that. And, again, the multiple charges are done as a matter of course. The fact is that none of them are violent crimes, and they are all part of a single set of circumstances with a common victim. It's one actual crime. That the charges are broken into piece parts really doesn't change the basic point.

Would you address my analogy of an armed robbery in which a murder is committed, then? Simply pretending it wasn't pointed out to you doesn't cut ice.

(30-01-2016 04:21 PM)BnW Wrote:  And, the basic point is, again, that 20 years for a first time conviction for a non-violent crime is ridiculous.

"A" crime! I'll give you this -- you're resolute in your incomprehension.

Quick question: How many murder charges did Timothy McVeigh face? What other charges did he face? According to your "logic", he committed one actual crime. Why did he face multiple charges?
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