Types and examples of scribal errors
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02-09-2015, 01:00 PM
RE: Types and examples of scribal errors
Moving on

A. ANCIENT ERRORS:

a. Unintentional errors:
1. Errors due to faulty eyesight:
1e. Bookbinding errors
: Fair warning. I'm on speculative grounds here.

These are errors made by the bookbinder transposing pages that begin with the same word or phrase

Ancient codices were written on sheets of vellum (parchment) or papyrus. Anywhere from four to six sheets were glued or stitched together and folded in the middle to make a quire. Individual quires were then glued or stitched together and bound to form a book. Occasionally, the binder may have been fooled by a page or quire beginning with a word or passage similar to that of another and may have accidentally transposed a page.

The pericope adulterae is a famous passage in John 7:53-8:11 which tells the story of Jesus and the adulterous woman and contains the quote about casting the first stone. Most scholars agree that this passage is not in the original document (it is missing in most of the most ancient manuscripts like Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus) and is a late interpolation.

In a few manuscripts, the entire passage has been lifted out of John and transplanted to Luke after Luke 21:38. These manuscripts are all designated as belonging to Family 13 and are closely related enough that they are felt to descend from a common ancestor. It is possible that in the ancestor document, a bookbinder may have pasted the wrong page containing the pericope adulterae in Luke rather than John. The mistake was then perpetuated by the copyists.

In fairness, this could also have been a simple scribal error.

Doc
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02-09-2015, 01:19 PM
RE: Types and examples of scribal errors
Nicely done Doc, makes my attempt on this subject look childish and amateurish Weeping

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Love it, expand it as applicable and add it to the resource area. Good stuff...it is things like this that so many people just don't think about....especially the literalist.

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02-09-2015, 10:16 PM
RE: Types and examples of scribal errors
(31-08-2015 09:43 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  Sometimes, the scribe inadvertently copied a word or letter twice and this changed the meaning of the text. For example, in Acts 27:37, Luke says, "Altogether there were 276 of us on board (the ship)." However, in codex Vaticanus, the text reads, "Altogether there were about 76 of us on board (the ship)". This is explained as follows: The original Greek says "Εν τω πλοιω σος (on board the ship, two hundred and seventy six). The copyist however added an extra ω in the phrase so it read, Εν τω πλοιωωσος and the phrase was split as follows, Εν τω πλοιω ως ος (on board the ship, about seventy six). There should be a line above the σος to indicate that it is a numeral but I am unable to format it that way. Also, the σ was changed to ς as per Greek grammar rules.

Doc, question for you. Is there a way the scribe could have made an error in Acts 27 and halfway through Acts 28 that causes the perspective to change? Acts is in the 3rd person until Acts 27 where it switches to the 1st person, then inexplicably changes back to the third person at Acts 28:17. This has always bothered me because the author seems to be totally different and I have a hard time believing that a scribe would change the perspective like that.

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03-09-2015, 09:09 AM
RE: Types and examples of scribal errors
(02-09-2015 10:16 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  Doc, question for you. Is there a way the scribe could have made an error in Acts 27 and halfway through Acts 28 that causes the perspective to change? Acts is in the 3rd person until Acts 27 where it switches to the 1st person, then inexplicably changes back to the third person at Acts 28:17. This has always bothered me because the author seems to be totally different and I have a hard time believing that a scribe would change the perspective like that.

TOC,
I've addressed this elsewhere, but this is as good a place as any to reiterate some of the stuff I've said earlier.

The book of Acts is mostly written in the third person (for example, “Peter said this” or “Paul did that”). In four separate sections (Acts 16:10–17, Acts 20:5–15, Acts 21:1-18 and Acts 27:1–28:16)., however, the narrative suddenly switches to the first person (for example, “we sailed here” or “they told us”). These are the so-called “we sections” and are felt to represent times when Luke (or whoever the actual author of Luke-Acts was) joins Paul on his journeys (which proves that the non-”we sections” are also based on hearsay). The shifts are abrupt and are jarring in the perusal. They do not make for smooth reading and have the feeling of having been inserted into the narrative from another source.

There are a couple of points I want to make.

A. The traditional view is that the author of Luke-Acts was Luke, a physician. One of the miracles recorded in in Acts 20:5-15 is the raising up from the dead of Eutychus, a young man who fell asleep when Paul was preaching and fell from a third story window and died. He was raised from the dead by Paul.

When Eutychus fell, however, it was Paul who first responded and examined him, and not Luke, the physician. Luke makes no mention of even having examined the patient. Why would he not get involved in the case unless it was because he was not a physician? The same issue holds true in the other three “we sections,” where four separate miracles are recorded. These include the healing of the demon-possessed girl by Paul in Acts 16:10–17, the protection of Paul from the effects of a viper bite, the healing of Publius’s father of fever and dysentery by Paul, and lastly the healing of the sick of the island of Malta, again by Paul, all recorded in Acts 27:1–28:16.

Why was Luke the physician not evident in action in any of these cases? The problem has only two solutions—either the author was not a physician or he was one but abdicated all responsibilities to Paul, setting a perfect (despicable) precedent for the practitioners of modern faith healing.

B. Several solutions have been proposed for the mystery of why the author used the “we” sections in a book that is predominantly told in the third person:
a. Actual eyewitness accounts. This leaves the rest of the book(s) as non-eyewitness accounts.
b. Conventional accounts, where Luke uses a literary device favoring the use of the first person, when it comes to certain parts of his narrative, primarily sea-voyages. However, other parts of his narrative that deal with sea voyages are told in the third person.
c. Fictional accounts, where Luke uses the first person to boost his street cred as an actual eye-witness. But why is the rest of the narrative in the third person?
d. Second-hand account, where Luke was conveying the experiences of another companion of Paul. Same problems as a, b and c above.
e. An ancient editor mixed up different versions of the accounts to create a composite account. However, no ancient manuscripts supporting this hypothesis has been found.

Doc
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03-09-2015, 09:13 AM
RE: Types and examples of scribal errors
(03-09-2015 09:09 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  
(02-09-2015 10:16 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  Doc, question for you. Is there a way the scribe could have made an error in Acts 27 and halfway through Acts 28 that causes the perspective to change? Acts is in the 3rd person until Acts 27 where it switches to the 1st person, then inexplicably changes back to the third person at Acts 28:17. This has always bothered me because the author seems to be totally different and I have a hard time believing that a scribe would change the perspective like that.

TOC,
I've addressed this elsewhere, but this is as good a place as any to reiterate some of the stuff I've said earlier.

The book of Acts is mostly written in the third person (for example, “Peter said this” or “Paul did that”). In four separate sections (Acts 16:10–17, Acts 20:5–15, Acts 21:1-18 and Acts 27:1–28:16)., however, the narrative suddenly switches to the first person (for example, “we sailed here” or “they told us”). These are the so-called “we sections” and are felt to represent times when Luke (or whoever the actual author of Luke-Acts was) joins Paul on his journeys (which proves that the non-”we sections” are also based on hearsay). The shifts are abrupt and are jarring in the perusal. They do not make for smooth reading and have the feeling of having been inserted into the narrative from another source.

There are a couple of points I want to make.

A. The traditional view is that the author of Luke-Acts was Luke, a physician. One of the miracles recorded in in Acts 20:5-15 is the raising up from the dead of Eutychus, a young man who fell asleep when Paul was preaching and fell from a third story window and died. He was raised from the dead by Paul.

When Eutychus fell, however, it was Paul who first responded and examined him, and not Luke, the physician. Luke makes no mention of even having examined the patient. Why would he not get involved in the case unless it was because he was not a physician? The same issue holds true in the other three “we sections,” where four separate miracles are recorded. These include the healing of the demon-possessed girl by Paul in Acts 16:10–17, the protection of Paul from the effects of a viper bite, the healing of Publius’s father of fever and dysentery by Paul, and lastly the healing of the sick of the island of Malta, again by Paul, all recorded in Acts 27:1–28:16.

Why was Luke the physician not evident in action in any of these cases? The problem has only two solutions—either the author was not a physician or he was one but abdicated all responsibilities to Paul, setting a perfect (despicable) precedent for the practitioners of modern faith healing.

B. Several solutions have been proposed for the mystery of why the author used the “we” sections in a book that is predominantly told in the third person:
a. Actual eyewitness accounts. This leaves the rest of the book(s) as non-eyewitness accounts.
b. Conventional accounts, where Luke uses a literary device favoring the use of the first person, when it comes to certain parts of his narrative, primarily sea-voyages. However, other parts of his narrative that deal with sea voyages are told in the third person.
c. Fictional accounts, where Luke uses the first person to boost his street cred as an actual eye-witness. But why is the rest of the narrative in the third person?
d. Second-hand account, where Luke was conveying the experiences of another companion of Paul. Same problems as a, b and c above.
e. An ancient editor mixed up different versions of the accounts to create a composite account. However, no ancient manuscripts supporting this hypothesis has been found.

Doc

Thanks doc. Sorry I missed you addressing this before.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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07-09-2015, 06:21 PM
RE: Types and examples of scribal errors
Moseyin' on.

A. ANCIENT ERRORS (prior to the invention of printing):

a. Unintentional errors:

2. Errors due to faulty hearing.
Sometimes, scribes transcribed copies while listening to the text read aloud by a reader.

2a. Homophony. It was easy to confuse homophones, like the Greek versions of 'their' and 'there'.
For example, Romans 5:1 says, “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have (ἔχομεν) peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ”.
But many ancient manuscripts say, “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, let us have (ἔχωμεν) peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ”.
The ο and ω are homophones and interchanging them changes the sentence from a descriptive one to a hortatory one.

2b. Itacisms. Greek vowels like η, ι, υ and diphthongs like ει, οι, and υι all came to be pronounced similarly, like 'ee' in feet. One vowel or diphthong could then be substituted for another, sometimes changing the meaning of the word.
For example, Matthew 11:16, says, “They are like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling out to others” (ἑτέροις).
But some ancient manuscripts say, “They are like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling out to their comrades” (ἑταίροις).

In another example, 1 Cor. 15:54, says “Death has been swallowed up in νῖκος (victory)."
Some manuscripts read, "Death has been swallowed up in νεικος (strife)."

To be continued…
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14-09-2015, 07:12 PM
RE: Types and examples of scribal errors
Sashayin’ on.

(Continued)
A. ANCIENT ERRORS:

a. Unintentional errors:

2. Errors due to faulty hearing:

2c. Breathing errors:
Greek words could be pronounced with rough or smooth breathing and these had distinctive accent marks. The scribe could mis-hear the pronunciation and put down the wrong accent mark, sometimes changing the meaning of the word.

For example, John 8:44 says, “"You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand (ἕστηκεν) in the truth because there is no truth in him.”
Some manuscripts say, “You belong to your father the devil, and you want to carry out the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning and has never stood (εἱστήκει) for truth, since there is no truth in him.”

The big deal here is that it is a question of doctrine. Did Jesus say that that the devil “does not stand (now) in the truth” or that the devil “has never stood for truth”? The latter meaning suggests that evil is co-eternal with good.

Doc
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14-09-2015, 07:31 PM
RE: Types and examples of scribal errors
(14-09-2015 07:12 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  Sashayin’ on.

(Continued)
A. ANCIENT ERRORS:

a. Unintentional errors:

2. Errors due to faulty hearing:

2c. Breathing errors:
Greek words could be pronounced with rough or smooth breathing and these had distinctive accent marks. The scribe could mis-hear the pronunciation and put down the wrong accent mark, sometimes changing the meaning of the word.

For example, John 8:44 says, “"You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand (ἕστηκεν) in the truth because there is no truth in him.”
Some manuscripts say, “You belong to your father the devil, and you want to carry out the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning and has never stood (εἱστήκει) for truth, since there is no truth in him.”

The big deal here is that it is a question of doctrine. Did Jesus say that that the devil “does not stand (now) in the truth” or that the devil “has never stood for truth”? The latter meaning suggests that evil is co-eternal with good.

Doc
Evil is co-eternal with good. But Lucifer did stand for truth before he decided not to do it any more.

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I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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15-09-2015, 09:10 AM
RE: Types and examples of scribal errors
Alla,
I'm not familiar enough with Mormon theology to comment on your last post. Do you have something from the Bible or BoM to back up your statement?

Doc
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15-09-2015, 02:56 PM
RE: Types and examples of scribal errors
(15-09-2015 09:10 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  Alla,
I'm not familiar enough with Mormon theology to comment on your last post. Do you have something from the Bible or BoM to back up your statement?

Doc

Luke 10:
18 And he said onto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

from this we learn that Satan 1) was in heaven, 2) he fell /was chasten from heaven.
Why was he in heaven in the first place? because he was worthy to be there. He was standing for the truth. He was not falling yet.
Satan was falling from heaven because he became an angel who didn't keep his first estate(Jude 1:6)

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