U.S. Supreme Court free speech ruling
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22-06-2017, 08:23 AM
RE: U.S. Supreme Court free speech ruling
(19-06-2017 09:37 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Supreme Court ruled 8-0 to strike down a law that allows the U.S. Patent office to deny "disparaging" trademarks. At issue was an Asian band that had named themselves "the Slants." [...]

This is an ad for the Melbourne (Australia) Royal Agricultural Show from circa late 1950s...

[Image: 411909-small.jpg]


Interesting thing is that as a teenager at the time, I never once thought of it as being racist and/or offensive in any way, nor had the politically-correct class yet been spawned. It was just a product brand nameā€”nothing more; nothing less. Those were simpler times. Good or bad... I dunno really?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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22-06-2017, 09:21 AM
RE: U.S. Supreme Court free speech ruling
(22-06-2017 07:11 AM)BnW Wrote:  The modern left, at least as represented on college campuses, are insane. They can't bear to hear any contrary point of view, much less engage in a debate about those issues. It's all or nothing with some of these kids.

I weep for the future.

Take shill pill.

They are kids and kids grow up.

As their belief set into place, as their lives become more complex, as their knowledge of issues become more profound and complex, their positions become more nuanced and flexible. It's the proper of youth to be idealistic, black and white and all or nothing. I am not old enough to forget that I used to be a lot more manichean in thinking. It's part of growing up.

Don't let the media scare you by making them look like a bunch of crazy. They are kids. Worry about the 40 years old who are in the same position.

Freedom is servitude to justice and intellectual honesty.
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22-06-2017, 02:52 PM
RE: U.S. Supreme Court free speech ruling
(21-06-2017 05:55 PM)BnW Wrote:  Oh, one other thing - the etymology of the phrase "Redskins" may be benign but the team's adoption of that name most certainly was not. It absolutely was due to a popular perception about the ferocity of native americans - which was a myth built up to justify their wholesale slaughter. That is what the Redskins were going for when they picked that name and that is what native Americans object to. Let's not pretend the name was benign, because it was not. I'm ok with the government not being able to force a name change because of hurt feelings, but i'm perfectly ok with pressure being applied to the team to force a change.

And yet, not all tribal groups are agreed on this point. Indeed, those making the most fuss about it are across the continent, in upstate New York (the Oneida Nation of New York).

In reference to you observation regarding the fleetingness and regionalism of which words are considered offensive, I'd just note that I have never, ever, heard any of my Native friends or acquaintances, on either side of the country, refer to themselves or their people as "Native American". They either use their particular tribal affiliation, or when speaking generically they call themselves "Indians".

Even Oregon, the only state to attempt to implement an outright ban on the use of native "mascots" in its schools, has made exceptions on behalf of schools who have gotten consent from one of the state's nine recognized tribes to keep their mascots. And the tribes have given their consent, in some cases.

As with many such things, this is not a simple "black/white" issue. There is no single monolithic "Native Community"; there are 567 recognized tribes in the US; they are made up of individuals; and they have a correspondingly diverse range of opinions on the matter.

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"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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22-06-2017, 02:59 PM
RE: U.S. Supreme Court free speech ruling
(19-06-2017 01:56 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(19-06-2017 01:25 PM)epronovost Wrote:  In many places, the court can refuse to allow parents to name babies with extraordinarly stupid or offensive names.

Citation please -- in the United States.

There was the hubbub about the kid named Adolf Hitler and the bakery who refused to put the name on a cake. But I'm unaware of the courts approving baby names (I suppose if a parent disagrees that could be for the court to decide, but I dunno).

As far as I know, the US doesn't stop people from naming their babies whatever they want. I know someone who used to work in whatever office processed North Carolina's birth certificates. "Best of" included Mr. and Mrs. Bean who named their newborn twins "Butter" and "Lima." One where you just kind of had to make up your own story as to "why?" was the beautiful baby girl whose mother named her "Placenta." I think if the courts were ever going to step in for the sake of the child, THAT'S where I would have hoped they'd draw a line.

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22-06-2017, 11:49 PM
RE: U.S. Supreme Court free speech ruling
Personally, I think that people empower "offensive" words and phrases by making such a huge deal about them. Words aren't magical. It's the intent behind them that matters, in my opinion. By loading them up with so much taboo, they end up being defined as being offensive. In a later time, when people have given up caring about the word itself, no one gives a damn about it. Instead they've moved onto others words that they load up.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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23-06-2017, 05:42 AM
RE: U.S. Supreme Court free speech ruling
(22-06-2017 09:21 AM)epronovost Wrote:  
(22-06-2017 07:11 AM)BnW Wrote:  The modern left, at least as represented on college campuses, are insane. They can't bear to hear any contrary point of view, much less engage in a debate about those issues. It's all or nothing with some of these kids.

I weep for the future.

Take shill pill.

They are kids and kids grow up.

As their belief set into place, as their lives become more complex, as their knowledge of issues become more profound and complex, their positions become more nuanced and flexible. It's the proper of youth to be idealistic, black and white and all or nothing. I am not old enough to forget that I used to be a lot more manichean in thinking. It's part of growing up.

Don't let the media scare you by making them look like a bunch of crazy. They are kids. Worry about the 40 years old who are in the same position.

Where do you think narrow minded, inflexible 40 year olds come from?

I get that these are basically children with no real life experience, no context, etc. But, we are increasingly becoming a world of black or white. It's a real problem. And, as you point out, it's not just college kids. People who watch Fox News 5 hours a day are usually not much better. I have an uncle in his mid-70s who believes every piece of bullshit that comes out of Fox, no matter how crazy or demonstrably false it may be. And, given that, I see no evidence to think the crazy college students of today are going to moderate as they reach adulthood. Their parents aren't. They grandparents aren't. Why should they?

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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23-06-2017, 08:26 AM
RE: U.S. Supreme Court free speech ruling
(23-06-2017 05:42 AM)BnW Wrote:  
(22-06-2017 09:21 AM)epronovost Wrote:  Take shill pill.

They are kids and kids grow up.

As their belief set into place, as their lives become more complex, as their knowledge of issues become more profound and complex, their positions become more nuanced and flexible. It's the proper of youth to be idealistic, black and white and all or nothing. I am not old enough to forget that I used to be a lot more manichean in thinking. It's part of growing up.

Don't let the media scare you by making them look like a bunch of crazy. They are kids. Worry about the 40 years old who are in the same position.

Where do you think narrow minded, inflexible 40 year olds come from?

I get that these are basically children with no real life experience, no context, etc. But, we are increasingly becoming a world of black or white. It's a real problem. And, as you point out, it's not just college kids. People who watch Fox News 5 hours a day are usually not much better. I have an uncle in his mid-70s who believes every piece of bullshit that comes out of Fox, no matter how crazy or demonstrably false it may be. And, given that, I see no evidence to think the crazy college students of today are going to moderate as they reach adulthood. Their parents aren't. They grandparents aren't. Why should they?

Attacking higher education is a long right wing tactic. Decades ago the university system was accused of being a breeding ground for communism, with at least some, however meager, justification.

How much damage did those commies actually do to this country compared to their capitalist detractors?

Now college students are being accused of not listening to opposing viewpoints? By whom? And what viewpoints would those be? Hyperpartisan right wing views made by hyperpartisan right wing commentators? More likely they've considered those viewpoints and rejected them. It doesn't take too long to recognize that bullshit.

Also, these are eighteen to twenty-one or -two year olds. The right wing in their lifetime has consisted of W. and Cheney, Sarah Palin and Donald Trump (and those are only the office seekers and holders, there's also FoxNews, Breitbart, Limbaugh and Coulter). Their rejecting the craziness of the right wing assholes is not based on some sort of innate intransigence, it's a natural reaction to evil.

The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. (G.B.Shaw)
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23-06-2017, 11:36 AM
RE: U.S. Supreme Court free speech ruling
(23-06-2017 08:26 AM)Vivian Darkbloom Wrote:  Their rejecting the craziness of the right wing assholes is not based on some sort of innate intransigence, it's a natural reaction to evil.

Ok, I think I've just found the root cause of our disagreement. I don't necessarily believe someone with a different opinion than me is evil. I also don't think the appropriate reaction to ideas I don't agree with is violence.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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23-06-2017, 11:45 AM (This post was last modified: 23-06-2017 11:59 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: U.S. Supreme Court free speech ruling
(23-06-2017 11:36 AM)BnW Wrote:  
(23-06-2017 08:26 AM)Vivian Darkbloom Wrote:  Their rejecting the craziness of the right wing assholes is not based on some sort of innate intransigence, it's a natural reaction to evil.

Ok, I think I've just found the root cause of our disagreement. I don't necessarily believe someone with a different opinion than me is evil. I also don't think the appropriate reaction to ideas I don't agree with is violence.

Evil may be a bit melodramatic word but it depends on what two people disagree. I think euthanasia should be legal and I have hard time with thinking that person opposing such can be called good. Being complicit in suffering others cause you believe in ancient fairy tales or for whatever other reason isn't mark of good person.

I agree with you about violence though even if I would shed no tears over neo-nazi getting as kicked. Still even such specimen merit full protection of the law.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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23-06-2017, 02:45 PM
RE: U.S. Supreme Court free speech ruling
(23-06-2017 11:36 AM)BnW Wrote:  
(23-06-2017 08:26 AM)Vivian Darkbloom Wrote:  Their rejecting the craziness of the right wing assholes is not based on some sort of innate intransigence, it's a natural reaction to evil.

Ok, I think I've just found the root cause of our disagreement. I don't necessarily believe someone with a different opinion than me is evil. I also don't think the appropriate reaction to ideas I don't agree with is violence.

Okay, I should have repeated "right wing assholes" instead of "evil" since I didn't give an example of what I think is an evil that right wingers champion.

I also don't necessarily believe someone with a differing opinion is evil.

But jaysus christ I sure am sick of people on the internet having to have every last thing spelled out for them. After everything I wrote you concluded that I thought people who simply saw things differently were evil? That's insulting, really.

Now I know that we don't know each other, and that may limit the degree to which we can understand each other's point without saying certain words, but in this case you could have tried a bit more, imo.

For I did mention Palin, Coulter and Limbaugh by name. And Breitbart. Those aren't just people I disagree with going merrily about their day. Those people actively promote hatred and the dehumanizing of their political opponents on a regular basis. They spread lies and misinformation, so no, it's not just about a different opinion.

The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. (G.B.Shaw)
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