U.S. churches catching on to communion breads free of gluten
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26-12-2014, 02:45 PM
RE: U.S. churches catching on to communion breads free of gluten
(26-12-2014 12:34 PM)Airportkid Wrote:  Whether literal or symbolic, the effects of communion don't last very long. Whatever it is that communion does to you physically and/or psychologically has evaporated within a week, and has to be done all over again, in full, at least every seventh day.

Now, before you rush in here and say digestion is temporary and has to be repeated daily to continue benefiting from its effects, step back and take in the larger picture: communion is not a process for corporal nourishment, its purpose is a spiritual reinforcement.

You have to ask, if a supernatural omnipowerful being has developed a means of spiritual reinforcement, why employ something weak as mere human meat and blood to manifest the effect? Processed via digestion it only lasts about a week, if that long.

Vaccines effects last much longer. Years. Even decades. It seems to me a smart god would long ago have developed communion as a mechanism closer to vaccination, so you wouldn't have to chase down a priest every week to get a refill, and whatever beneficial effects communion is supposed to imbue in mankind would have more permanence.

If, for example, an intended effect of communion is to improve general sociability (you know, friendliness, generosity, more forgiving, etc.), it'd be a lot smarter, if you'd want these effects to be much more intrinsic to our society than they are, to achieve it in a fashion that has some permanence.

Since communion depends on a method that predates vaccination, one can only conclude that a smart god was not actually involved in its development. Not a smart one.

Well technically it lasts a year. You are only required to go to communion once a year during the easter season. So that's not too bad. BTW the effect of communion is the forgiveness of venial sins.

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26-12-2014, 02:53 PM
RE: U.S. churches catching on to communion breads free of gluten
(26-12-2014 02:41 PM)Gordon Wrote:  But if there were thousands of sects of "Christ-only" Christians, like Veridicans, and if there were some that ate human flesh and drank human blood. I think they would die out pretty quickly. They'd either kill themselves or others would kill them off.

Wait, is Gordon a Veridican. (Looks at reputation) why does this seem terrifyingly familiar?

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

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26-12-2014, 02:56 PM
RE: U.S. churches catching on to communion breads free of gluten
(26-12-2014 02:53 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  Wait, is Gordon a Veridican. (Looks at reputation) why does this seem terrifyingly familiar?

Because it is. Weeping

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26-12-2014, 02:59 PM
RE: U.S. churches catching on to communion breads free of gluten
(26-12-2014 02:41 PM)Gordon Wrote:  True, one could construe that to mean it's okay to eat flesh, because it counts for nothing. Of course, since there is no indication in the Gospel that he ever did eat flesh, or that his disciples did, or that they ever did after his departure, or any time in history, and then there is the fact that they used bread at the Last Supper and he said, "This is my body," but of course, the didn't really mean that either.

Yea, Yea, so you say. Big Grin That's your interpretation. The Catholics appear to disagree since they profess to believe that the wafer IS his body in a literal sense.

Quote: So, I don't think a rational person would see John 6 as go-ahead for cannibalism.

I don't think anybody was really saying that it authorizes cannibalism in a general sense. It can be read as the Catholics do and consuming what you believe to be literal flesh and blood is an act of cannibalism even if it is restricted to the specific ritual.

Quote:And that actually brings me to another point (not that anyone's listening to me at this point), but as a general rule, when reading the Gospels critically, the interpretation has to apply to all times. If an interpretation makes the Gospel record applicable only to, say, the first century, then it's not being interpreted correctly.

So, even that rule of Gospel analysis rules out a literal interpretation of eating Jesus' flesh.

Citation needed; where is this rule of Gospel analysis defined? The analysis of the OT is apparently overturned by the NT. Can't god change his mind again?

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26-12-2014, 03:07 PM
RE: U.S. churches catching on to communion breads free of gluten
(26-12-2014 02:59 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(26-12-2014 02:41 PM)Gordon Wrote:  True, one could construe that to mean it's okay to eat flesh, because it counts for nothing. Of course, since there is no indication in the Gospel that he ever did eat flesh, or that his disciples did, or that they ever did after his departure, or any time in history, and then there is the fact that they used bread at the Last Supper and he said, "This is my body," but of course, the didn't really mean that either.

Yea, Yea, so you say. Big Grin That's your interpretation. The Catholics appear to disagree since they profess to believe that the wafer IS his body in a literal sense.

Quote: So, I don't think a rational person would see John 6 as go-ahead for cannibalism.

I don't think anybody was really saying that it authorizes cannibalism in a general sense. It can be read as the Catholics do and consuming what you believe to be literal flesh and blood is an act of cannibalism even if it is restricted to the specific ritual.

Quote:And that actually brings me to another point (not that anyone's listening to me at this point), but as a general rule, when reading the Gospels critically, the interpretation has to apply to all times. If an interpretation makes the Gospel record applicable only to, say, the first century, then it's not being interpreted correctly.

So, even that rule of Gospel analysis rules out a literal interpretation of eating Jesus' flesh.

Citation needed; where is this rule of Gospel analysis defined? The analysis of the OT is apparently overturned by the NT. Can't god change his mind again?

Fun fact: canabolism is not strictly prohibited under Catholicism and can be permitted under some circumstances.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
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26-12-2014, 03:07 PM
RE: U.S. churches catching on to communion breads free of gluten
(26-12-2014 02:56 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(26-12-2014 02:53 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  Wait, is Gordon a Veridican. (Looks at reputation) why does this seem terrifyingly familiar?

Because it is. Weeping

Oh dear Sad

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
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26-12-2014, 03:59 PM
RE: U.S. churches catching on to communion breads free of gluten
(26-12-2014 01:32 PM)Gordon Wrote:  
(26-12-2014 12:00 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Seems awfully literal in the Gospel of John (Chap. 6). So much so that he supposedly lost a lot of disciples because of it.

Don't act stupid. Read the 63rd verse. And you don't have to, because I know you know it's already there. That's the problem with atheists, they are very good at murdering their intellect, playing dumb whenever they need to prop up their philosophy.

But, hey, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you don't know. And, yep, Jesus lost all of his followers at that point except for the 12. Do you really think that was an accident? Look at the kind of follower Jesus is trying to cultivate. It's not masses of ignorant people all under the control of a hierarchy of priests and preachers that tickle their ears with positive trash. It's spiritual people. People who have come to realize the spirit is the real person and the will of God matters more than what we can get out of this temporary world.

Here's my point, though: You said, in your earlier post, that he clearly said that he didn't mean it literally. This would have been a perfect opportunity for him to do that -- when a bunch of people were leaving because they did take it literally. But he didn't. He just let them leave. This doesn't exactly support the claim you made earlier.
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27-12-2014, 07:11 AM
RE: U.S. churches catching on to communion breads free of gluten
(26-12-2014 09:26 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  I posed this question elsewhere:

While I am glad to see the church keeping up with the times, it does raise some issues. Although this may prove of no consequence to Protestant denominations which believe that communion is merely symbolic, it does put the Catholic Church, which believes in the transubstantiation of the host and the wine into the actual body and blood of Jesus Christ, in a bind. Has the body of Christ been responsible for gastric upset and diarrhea in a host of gluten-sensitive people through the ages?

Doc

Either the body of Christ is causing their gastric distress or their body (astonishingly) is treating it just like a cracker and not breaking down the gluten in the cracker normally.

Either way, every time they take communion their body is doing some very disturbing things in relation to the Catholic faith:

1. Having a bad reaction to the body of Christ.
2. Acting like transubstantiation isn't a real thing.

Amazing how people can still believe this medieval silliness.

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27-12-2014, 07:17 AM
RE: U.S. churches catching on to communion breads free of gluten
Why? Blink I do not understand? There is no Gluten in Blood or human flesh!

Why would they need Gluten free bread? When you eat the bread and drink the wine, it becomes the "LITERAL" blood and "LITERAL" blood of Christ!

Therefor, its atomic structure by the powers of jesus and the priest, alchemicaly transmute it instantly into human god blood and flesh the exact moment you consume it! That is how it is suppose to work right? So why would they need to worry about people being allergic to something they are not actually eating?

Facepalm Stupid Christian Wannabe's!


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27-12-2014, 07:42 AM
RE: U.S. churches catching on to communion breads free of gluten
(27-12-2014 07:17 AM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  Why? Blink I do not understand? There is no Gluten in Blood or human flesh!

Why would they need Gluten free bread? When you eat the bread and drink the wine, it becomes the "LITERAL" blood and "LITERAL" blood of Christ!

Therefor, its atomic structure by the powers of jesus and the priest, alchemicaly transmute it instantly into human god blood and flesh the exact moment you consume it! That is how it is suppose to work right? So why would they need to worry about people being allergic to something they are not actually eating?

Facepalm Stupid Christian Wannabe's!

They have actually considered all that, and have an "answer" for it. Unfortunately, it relies on Aristotelian metaphysics that nobody takes seriously anymore -- i.e., the "accidents" are still bread and wine, but the "substance" has been changed to the Body and Blood of Christ. Conveniently, this interpretation has the advantage of being absolutely non-falsifiable.
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