UFO Disclosure
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18-09-2015, 10:55 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(18-09-2015 10:49 AM)Free Wrote:  I have provided many links to the Chicago Tribune story, with numerous videos in which the reporter tells you he has interviewed these witnesses.

The NARCAP report includes the text from Hilkevitch's interviews. Hilkevitch is the Tribune employee who conducted the interviews. They are not separate sources.

(18-09-2015 10:49 AM)Free Wrote:  That's all there is. I can't keep doing this for you people if you won't read the report properly, or won't even follow the links to investigate this properly.

What more can I do if you people will not investigate it?

You can't read. That's the problem.

The "sources" you keep running to do not say what you claim they do. This has been amply demonstrated.

You just don't give a shit.

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18-09-2015, 10:58 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(18-09-2015 10:49 AM)Free Wrote:  What more can I do if you people will not investigate it?

It's been investigated. You are simply wrong, as per usual.

You don't even have the reading comprehension of a third-grader.

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18-09-2015, 11:28 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(18-09-2015 10:55 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(18-09-2015 10:49 AM)Free Wrote:  I have provided many links to the Chicago Tribune story, with numerous videos in which the reporter tells you he has interviewed these witnesses.

The NARCAP report includes the text from Hilkevitch's interviews. Hilkevitch is the Tribune employee who conducted the interviews. They are not separate sources.

(18-09-2015 10:49 AM)Free Wrote:  That's all there is. I can't keep doing this for you people if you won't read the report properly, or won't even follow the links to investigate this properly.

What more can I do if you people will not investigate it?

You can't read. That's the problem.

The "sources" you keep running to do not say what you claim they do. This has been amply demonstrated.

You just don't give a shit.

The fact of the matter is, you, like everyone else, seems to think that the NARCAP report is the most important part of this story. You are ignoring the other side almost completely.

Here is more information:

"To recap, on Nov. 7, a dark gray flying saucerlike object--some said it was spinning, some not--hovered over the airport for several minutes before shooting through thick clouds with such speed that it left an eerie hole in overcast skies. That was the account gleaned by Tribune transportation reporter Jon Hilkevitch from some United Airlines employees--including a pilot and a mechanic--who said they observed the phenomenon."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2007-...ir-traffic

And in this video the reporter states as "numerous" the witnesses he spoke too, and explicitly says he spoke to "numerous pilots" alone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TVF4c90xGA

So for what reason do you have to doubt what this reporter is saying?

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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18-09-2015, 11:39 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(18-09-2015 11:28 AM)Free Wrote:  The fact of the matter is, you, like everyone else, seems to think that the NARCAP report is the most important part of this story. You are ignoring the other side almost completely.

There is no other side. The interviews from the Tribune, where reproducible, are included in the report.

(18-09-2015 11:28 AM)Free Wrote:  Here is more information:

"To recap, on Nov. 7, a dark gray flying saucerlike object--some said it was spinning, some not--hovered over the airport for several minutes before shooting through thick clouds with such speed that it left an eerie hole in overcast skies. That was the account gleaned by Tribune transportation reporter Jon Hilkevitch from some United Airlines employees--including a pilot and a mechanic--who said they observed the phenomenon."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2007-...ir-traffic

Free. Apparently you can't read.

Sample extract from the NARCAP report - page 13:
"He was quoted as saying, "I stood outside in the gate area not knowing what to think, just trying to figure out what it was... I knew no one would make a false call like that. But if somebody was bouncing a weather balloon or something else over O'Hare, we had to stop it because it was in very close proximity to our flight operations." (Hilkevitch, 2007)"

Do you see that (Hilkevitch, 2007)?

It means you're full of shit, because it means your "separate" sources are referring to the same material.

(18-09-2015 11:28 AM)Free Wrote:  And in this video the reporter states as "numerous" the witnesses he spoke too, and explicitly says he spoke to "numerous pilots" alone.

That's how low you're stretching? Not just unverifiable and unsubstantiated primary accounts, but unsubstantiated and unverifiable secondary accounts?

I once spoke to someone who said they were there the whole time and they never saw anything. Prove me wrong!

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18-09-2015, 11:44 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(18-09-2015 11:28 AM)Free Wrote:  Here is more information:

A quote that doesn't back up your "twelve witnesses" assertion and an informal interview with Hilkevitch four years after the fact - and he doesn't back up the twelve witnesses nonsense, either, even if he weren't presenting the same hearsay that we pointed out to you as worthless earlier.

This is just pathetic, really.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
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18-09-2015, 11:50 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
From all the evidence available, I personally determine that this is not a case of something "unknown," but rather a case of something unexplained.

This case does not involve just witnesses from United Airways, but rather numerous other witnesses, most of which have identified the object as being an aircraft of some sort.

I have absolutely no good reason to doubt what these numerous witnesses claimed to have seen, which was an aircraft of unknown design and origin.

From all here in this thread, I have seen many assertions of what it could be, yet all the witnesses who identified it as an aircraft adamantly deny all the assertions made by those of you in this thread.

It was not a hoax, a weather phenomenon, a known aircraft, or anything other than an aircraft of unknown origin and design. There is absolutely no good reason to doubt what all these numerous people claimed to have seen.

And all the assertions I have seen on this thread about this case have absolutely failed to demonstrate one bit of evidence whatsoever to demonstrate that it was not an aircraft of unknown design and origin.

No one here has produced a single eyewitness who said anything to the effect that it was a hoax, a lie, etc.

Therefore, I conclude that what these credible people saw was indeed an aircraft of unknown design and origin, and that this aircraft performed far beyond the abilities known of any other aircraft produced by humans.

My conclusion does not state as positive that this was an alien aircraft, for it could have been some man-made aircraft unknown to the general public, and I assign a higher degree of possibility to that position.

However, my personal experience and years of research into Ufology cannot discount an alien possibility.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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18-09-2015, 11:55 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(18-09-2015 11:50 AM)Free Wrote:  From all the evidence available, I personally determine that this is not a case of something "unknown," but rather a case of something unexplained.

Which is logically equivalent.

(18-09-2015 11:50 AM)Free Wrote:  This case does not involve just witnesses from United Airways, but rather numerous other witnesses, most of which have identified the object as being an aircraft of some sort.

False, and not evidence even if it isn't false.

(18-09-2015 11:50 AM)Free Wrote:  I have absolutely no good reason to doubt what these numerous witnesses claimed to have seen, which was an aircraft of unknown design and origin.

Save that there is absolutely no evidence in support of it.

(18-09-2015 11:50 AM)Free Wrote:  It was not a hoax, a weather phenomenon, a known aircraft, or anything other than an aircraft of unknown origin and design.

Bare assertion fallacy.

(18-09-2015 11:50 AM)Free Wrote:  And all the assertions I have seen on this thread about this case have absolutely failed to demonstrate one bit of evidence whatsoever to demonstrate that it was not an aircraft of unknown design and origin.

Burden of proof fallacy.

(18-09-2015 11:50 AM)Free Wrote:  No one here has produced a single eyewitness who said anything to the effect that it was a hoax, a lie, etc.

Save all the witnesses included in the NARCAP report who said that it was a balloon, a bird, or simply not there.

(18-09-2015 11:50 AM)Free Wrote:  Therefore, I conclude that what these credible people saw was indeed an aircraft of unknown design and origin, and that this aircraft performed far beyond the abilities known of any other aircraft produced by humans.

Fallacious for the reasons listed above. The credibility of the witnesses has not been established and the existence of a craft is even less so.

(18-09-2015 11:50 AM)Free Wrote:  My conclusion does not state as positive that this was an alien aircraft, for it could have been some man-made aircraft unknown to the general public, and I assign a higher degree of possibility to that position.

However, my personal experience and years of research into Ufology cannot discount an alien possibility.

Fallacious even if the craft had been established to exist.

You have failed on every possible level.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
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18-09-2015, 11:59 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(18-09-2015 11:55 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  You have failed on every possible level.

Presuppositionalism: it's not just for theists anymore!

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18-09-2015, 12:05 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(18-09-2015 11:59 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(18-09-2015 11:55 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  You have failed on every possible level.

Presuppositionalism: it's not just for theists anymore!

It never was. It includes aspiring "physicists" who "believe" that a singularity once existed based upon the circumstantial evidence.

And yes, I can make the comparison for the simple reason that you believe that the singularity existed when there is no direct evidence of the existence of the singularity.

No matter what you subscribe to, whether it is the Big Bang, evolution, or any theory that is incomplete in regards to total conclusiveness, you are in a state of belief.

And that makes you absolutely no different than a theist in that respect alone.

And now you are forced into an apologetics situation, because you will need to defend what you believe to be true, when we both know it would be pointless for you to even bother because you cannot conclusively prove what you assume to be the truth.

And that, alone, is truth in itself.

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18-09-2015, 12:11 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(18-09-2015 12:05 PM)Free Wrote:  It never was. It includes aspiring "physicists" who "believe" that a singularity once existed based upon the circumstantial evidence.

That is not what "presupposition" means.

That is the opposite of what "presupposition" means.

(18-09-2015 12:05 PM)Free Wrote:  No matter what you subscribe to, whether it is the Big Bang, evolution, or any theory that is incomplete in regards to total conclusiveness, you are in a state of belief.

Which is irrelevant.

What matters is whether or not that belief is rational.

Yours is not.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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