UFO Disclosure
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21-09-2015, 11:02 AM (This post was last modified: 21-09-2015 11:08 AM by Free.)
RE: UFO Disclosure
(21-09-2015 10:57 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(21-09-2015 10:52 AM)Free Wrote:  So, continuing on ...

I noticed nobody has said anything about the report at THIS POST which demonstrates official confirmation of the reality of the flying disc situation.

Any takers?


You mean that already debunked fake report? What of it?

Your link has nothing to do with that report. My post refers to what is commonly known as "The Twining Memo."

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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21-09-2015, 11:19 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(21-09-2015 09:55 AM)Free Wrote:  
(21-09-2015 09:27 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Free, please refrain from making threats like this -- even if it's supposed to be a joke. This is why theists think there's some weird double standard goijng on here.

Awww ... the poor babies complained about an obvious analogy and twisted it into an actual threat, and you don't see this?

This is desperation at its finest.

Big Grin

You do realize that Momsurroundedbyboys is a moderator, yes? That she is site staff, and that she is here to enforce the rules?

When you get told that you are dangerously close to crossing a line, your reaction should not be "oh look how desperate you people are". That isn't just immature. It's spitting in the face of the site rules.

If you want to trash-talk other members, feel free; it doesn't accomplish anything but making you look like a childish idiot. But something like this is just painfully stupid on so many levels that I can hardly believe even you would be silly enough to post it.

Then again, given the fact that you've been reduced to repeating already-debunked nonsense and nonsensical insults for the past, oh, twenty pages or so, I suppose it's not really that surprising. You have to come up with some new material from somewhere.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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21-09-2015, 11:23 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(21-09-2015 11:02 AM)Free Wrote:  Your link has nothing to do with that report. My post refers to what is commonly known as "The Twining Memo."

The Twining memo is not confirmation of alien visitation, either. In fact, it goes out of its way to point out that there is no actual evidence to be found, despite all indications that there should be.

The Twining memo was a call for investigation, nothing more. And that investigation turned up...

...Nothing.

As per usual.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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21-09-2015, 11:33 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(21-09-2015 10:46 AM)Free Wrote:  You've already been set straight, and now you are merely in denial.

Where?

Repeating falsehoods in outright denial of explicit citations in the source material is not particularly how I learned to make arguments.

Is it what you were taught? That would explain a lot...

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21-09-2015, 11:34 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
This has been for me as an observer, an interesting debate and exchange but can we avoid talk of nooses and hanging. I know it was a joke but having lost my best friend to suicide two months ago I find it seriously unfunny,
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21-09-2015, 11:38 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(21-09-2015 11:34 AM)adey67 Wrote:  This has been for me as an observer, an interesting debate and exchange but can we avoid talk of nooses and hanging. I know it was a joke but having lost my best friend to suicide two months ago I find it seriously unfunny,

Empty posturing and insults are all poor Free has left. You want to take those away from him, too?

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21-09-2015, 11:48 AM (This post was last modified: 21-09-2015 12:02 PM by Free.)
RE: UFO Disclosure
(21-09-2015 11:23 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(21-09-2015 11:02 AM)Free Wrote:  Your link has nothing to do with that report. My post refers to what is commonly known as "The Twining Memo."

The Twining memo is not confirmation of alien visitation, either. In fact, it goes out of its way to point out that there is no actual evidence to be found, despite all indications that there should be.

The Twining memo was a call for investigation, nothing more. And that investigation turned up...

...Nothing.

As per usual.

The problem with this is the following:

"As requested by AC/AS-2 there is presented below the considered opinion of this command concerning the so-called “Flying Discs.” This opinion is based on interrogation report data furnished by AC/AS-2 and preliminary studies by personnel of T-2 and Aircraft Laboratory, Engineering Division T-3. This opinion was arrived at in a conference between personnel from the Air Institute of Technology, Intelligence T-2, Office, Chief of Engineering Division, and the Aircraft, Power Plant and Propeller Laboratories of Engineering Division T-3."

The quote above shows that the command already investigated the situation through interrogation data furnished by AC/AS-2 and preliminary studies by personnel of T-2 and Aircraft Laboratory, Engineering Division T-3. It also states that the opinion was already arrived at in a conference between personnel from the Air Institute of Technology, Intelligence T-2, Office, Chief of Engineering Division, and the Aircraft, Power Plant and Propeller Laboratories of Engineering Division T-3.

Another problem is the definitive positive claims made by the report as follows:

2. It is the opinion that:

a. The phenomenon is something real and not visionary or fictitious.

b. There are objects probably approximating the shape of a disc, of such appreciable size as to appear to be as large as man-made aircraft.


And yet another problem is the positive language used in the descriptions of the aircrafts and their performance from previous reports:

"The reported operating characteristics such as extreme rates of climb, maneuverability (particularly in roll), and motion which must be considered evasive when sighted or contacted by friendly aircraft and radar, lend belief to the possibility that some of the objects are controlled manually, automatically or remotely.

e. The apparent common description is as follows:-

(1) Metallic or light reflecting surface.
(2) Absence of trail, except in a few instances where the object apparently was operating under high performance conditions.
(3) Circular or elliptical in shape, flat on bottom and domed on top.
(4) Several reports of well kept formation flights varying from three to nine objects.
(5) Normally no associated sound, except in three instances a substantial rumbling roar was noted.
(6) Level flight speeds normally above 300 knots are estimated."


The report uses language that denotes positive claims that these flying discs are real, and that they are objects that can be approximated in size as "man-made" aircraft.

I find his use of "man-made" as being very peculiar, as it seems to denote a contrast to something that is not man-made.

What can we do with these positive claims and the peculiar use of "man-made?"

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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21-09-2015, 12:17 PM (This post was last modified: 21-09-2015 12:25 PM by Free.)
RE: UFO Disclosure
Another official documents is THE REAL SCHULGEN MEMO (there is a fake one.)

Details below:

SECRET

DRAFT OF COLLECTION MEMORANDUM

OBJECT

1. This Memo sets forth the current intelligence requirements in the field of Flying Saucer type aircraft.

GENERAL

1. An alleged "Flying Saucer" type aircraft or object in flight, approximating the shape of a disc, has been reported by many observers from widely scattered places, such as the United States, Alaska, Canada, Hungary, the Island of Guam, and Japan.

This object has been reported by many competent observers, including USAF rated officers. Sightings have been made from the ground as well as from the air.

2. Commonly reported features that are very significant and which may aid in the investigation are as follows:

a. Relatively flat bottom with extreme light-reflecting ability.

b. Absence of sound except for an occasional roar when operating under super performance conditions.

c. Extreme maneuverability and apparent ability to almost hover.

d. A plan form approximating that of an oval or disc with a dome shape on the top surface.

e. The absence of an exhaust trail except in a few instances when it was reported to have a bluish color, like a Diesel exhaust, which persisted for approximately one hour. Other reports indicated a brownish smoke trail that could be the results of a special catalyst or chemical agent for extra power.

f. The ability to quickly disappear by high speed or by complete disintegration.

g. The ability to suddenly appear without warning as if from an extremely high altitude.

h. The size most reported approximated that of a C-54 or Constellation type aircraft.

i. The ability to group together very quickly in a tight formation when more than one aircraft are together.

j. Evasive action ability indicates possibility of being manually operated, or possibly by electronic or remote control devices.

k. Under certain power conditions, the craft seems to have the ability to cut a clear path through clouds -- width of path estimated to be approximately one-half mile. Only one incident indicated this phenomenon.

SECRET


This report positively claims that these discs were investigated and confirmed as existing by qualified members of the United States Air Force.

The similarities in regards to the design and performance of these aircraft is virtually identical to the O'Hare incident, including how they can cut a clear path through the clouds as opposed to the non disturbance of clouds by regular aircraft.

What do we do with this?

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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21-09-2015, 12:20 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(21-09-2015 11:48 AM)Free Wrote:  The problem with this is the following:

Ah, no. Sorry. You don't get to try and pull that nonsense.

Whatever the original opinion of Twining regarding the existence of unknown craft in the area, the fact remains that the actual investigation that he ordered found nothing.

Ordering a military investigation is one thing, particularly given the flying saucer craze in 1947 (Roswell got a lot of attention, and suddenly people were seeing these things everywhere, as credulous people are wont to do). Actually having that investigation turn up evidence is entirely another.

The fact that an investigation was ordered is in no way evidence of alien visitation, or even the existence of any unknown craft.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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21-09-2015, 12:23 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(21-09-2015 12:20 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(21-09-2015 11:48 AM)Free Wrote:  The problem with this is the following:

Ah, no. Sorry. You don't get to try and pull that nonsense.

Whatever the original opinion of Twining regarding the existence of unknown craft in the area, the fact remains that the actual investigation that he ordered found nothing.

Ordering a military investigation is one thing, particularly given the flying saucer craze in 1947 (Roswell got a lot of attention, and suddenly people were seeing these things everywhere, as credulous people are wont to do). Actually having that investigation turn up evidence is entirely another.

The fact that an investigation was ordered is in no way evidence of alien visitation, or even the existence of any unknown craft.

Your opinion above does not jibe with the positive claims made in the Twining Memo.

And I have not made any positive claims of alien visitation in regards to these memos.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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