UFO Disclosure
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24-09-2015, 02:19 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(24-09-2015 09:41 AM)Free Wrote:  And then all of you jumped on a bandwagon full of lies, and continued to insist what you were lying about was true, when all the evidence demonstrates nothing but a house of cards. So if you really want to think you or anyone else on that bandwagon has any degree of credibility when you have all be proven to be liars, then dude ... you just go right ahead and continue to believe your own lies, for I have learned that integrity and respect for the truth doesn't really matter with you at all, now does it?

You mean all the times we asked you for demonstrable evidence and you bleated that eyewitness testimony was good enough for you and thus should be good enough for us? The times we asked you to show how your methodology could possibly be called scientific and you called us retards? If that's your method of searching for and finding truth then I'm happy not to respect the truths that you find with it.

Quote:So until you understand that you will not be deserving a single ounce of respect from- not only me, but also others who messaged me- until you recognize what you have been doing here, there's really nothing more to say.

You've got imaginary friends now too?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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24-09-2015, 02:32 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(24-09-2015 09:41 AM)Free Wrote:  There's really nothing you can actually add to this thread in any positive way, other than trolling it because you can no longer lie about what my position is in regards to alien life visiting earth since I have proven that I had clearly stated my position way back on Page 8 of this topic, and it only took a few pages before Unbeliever began to misrepresent my position by asserting I was making a positive claim

Because you are.

You claim that you have evidence to support the alien hypothesis. You do not.

(24-09-2015 09:41 AM)Free Wrote:  he's continued to lie about my position ever since

No. I've been quite clear about what your position is since the very beginning.

You just prefer to throw a tantrum and try to prop up pathetically transparent straw men rather than to respond what has actually been said.

(24-09-2015 09:41 AM)Free Wrote:  And then at THIS POST he asserts that multiple eyewitness testimony cannot be used as evidence to support the possibility of alien visitation

Because it can't.

(24-09-2015 09:41 AM)Free Wrote:  when we all know that multiple eyewitness testimony is in fact considered oral evidence that is used to increase belief in a claim

Not without actual evidence to support it, it isn't.

(24-09-2015 09:41 AM)Free Wrote:  and proceeds to make a false comparisons

Such as comparing the idea of a technologically advanced non-human civilization existing alongside us on Earth with no one the wiser with a technologically advanced non-human civilization existing alongside us on Earth with no one the wiser.

(24-09-2015 09:41 AM)Free Wrote:  So until you understand that you will not be deserving a single ounce of respect from- not only me, but also others who messaged me- until you recognize what you have been doing here, there's really nothing more to say.

I am absolutely crushed about having lost the respect of a man who tells other people that he will "let them continue to be his bitch". The additional pain of having lost the support of a group of hypothetical anonymous persons who are not rational enough to recognize the silliness of his belief in alien visitation is almost too much to bear.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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24-09-2015, 02:36 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(24-09-2015 02:32 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  a group of hypothetical anonymous persons

Do ya think there's 12 of them by any chance? Maybe they're also expert aircraft spotters, steeped in the knowledge of what human made aircraft can and can't do Laugh out load

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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24-09-2015, 02:50 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(24-09-2015 02:19 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 09:41 AM)Free Wrote:  And then all of you jumped on a bandwagon full of lies, and continued to insist what you were lying about was true, when all the evidence demonstrates nothing but a house of cards. So if you really want to think you or anyone else on that bandwagon has any degree of credibility when you have all be proven to be liars, then dude ... you just go right ahead and continue to believe your own lies, for I have learned that integrity and respect for the truth doesn't really matter with you at all, now does it?

You mean all the times we asked you for demonstrable evidence and you bleated that eyewitness testimony was good enough for you and thus should be good enough for us?

Good enough for me for what, specifically? My position, as has been demonstrated ad nausium, is that the oral evidence of the multiple eyewitnesses is good enough to warrant an increase in belief in their claim.

And, as I have stated before, does it conclusively prove anything? Absolutely not.

All it does, and all it is capable of doing, is increasing the level of belief in regards to whether or not their claim is true.

That is good enough for me, and if it isn't good enough for you, then that really doesn't have anything to do with me.

Quote:The times we asked you to show how your methodology could possibly be called scientific and you called us retards? If that's your method of searching for and finding truth then I'm happy not to respect the truths that you find with it.

And yet each time you asked about "scientific evidence," I have responded by asking "How can science have anything to do with the claim of the 12 witnesses?"

What do you really think science can do with that claim? Absolutely nothing. Science can't help us here because it has no method that is applicable here.

Quote:
Quote:So until you understand that you will not be deserving a single ounce of respect from- not only me, but also others who messaged me- until you recognize what you have been doing here, there's really nothing more to say.

You've got imaginary friends now too?

If you want to think that people haven't been watching what's been going on in this thread, that's up to you.

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24-09-2015, 04:24 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(24-09-2015 02:50 PM)Free Wrote:  Science can't help us here because it has no method that is applicable here.

... So since science doesn't work, we must do... what?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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24-09-2015, 04:31 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(24-09-2015 02:50 PM)Free Wrote:  Good enough for me for what, specifically? My position, as has been demonstrated ad nausium, is that the oral evidence of the multiple eyewitnesses is good enough to warrant an increase in belief in their claim.

Which is wrong, unless you're being irrational.

As you are.

(24-09-2015 02:50 PM)Free Wrote:  And yet each time you asked about "scientific evidence," I have responded by asking "How can science have anything to do with the claim of the 12 witnesses?"

Very easily. For example, it tells us that a claim is not evidence, and thus does not give us any reason to believe that something is true. It then takes us to O'Hare Airport to look for any evidence indicating the actual existence of any kind of craft there at the given time, and finds nothing. Thus, it dismisses the claim.

It's not particularly complicated.

(24-09-2015 02:50 PM)Free Wrote:  If you want to think that people haven't been watching what's been going on in this thread, that's up to you.

Oh, I'm certain that quite a lot of people have been watching.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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24-09-2015, 07:05 PM (This post was last modified: 24-09-2015 07:23 PM by Free.)
RE: UFO Disclosure
(24-09-2015 04:24 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 02:50 PM)Free Wrote:  Science can't help us here because it has no method that is applicable here.

... So since science doesn't work, we must do... what?

You evaluate all available evidence and you simply make a judgement.

I made a judgement because all the available evidence is more than what you see on the surface of this UFO report at O'Hare.

"12 credible professionals saw an aircraft of unknown design and origin, which performed far beyond any known aircraft that these personnel had ever seen."

There is nothing incredulous or extraordinary about that claim.

What is extraordinary is the description of the craft's performance and it's ability to blow a hole in the clouds as it ascended.

So, how do I qualify the possibility that the aircraft could be controlled by non human intelligence?

Here's the reasoning:

Firstly, I find it highly implausible that non human intelligent life doesn't exist elsewhere in the universe. In fact, most scientists agree that non human intelligent life existing in the universe is almost a certainty given the vastness of the universe, and the billions of star systems. And if we can assume the great possibility that intelligent non human life can exist elsewhere in the universe, then we can also assume that that intelligent non human life can be far more technologically advanced than the human race could ever hope to be.

But also because of my study of this subject of UFOs in general, which the described UFO at O'Hare is relevant as this description has a history dating back to some 65 - 70 years in which this type of aircraft has been described as being in existence, not just by ordinary people, or photographs, but also within the records of the US Government and other governments.

When we see a consistency in descriptions of this type of aircraft from multiple people who's credibility is virtually without doubt, and we know that mankind had no ability to construct such a ridiculously high performance craft 70 years ago, there really isn't any other option other than non human intelligent life. After all, if we are incapable, then who is capable?

If these aircraft exist- and I know they do from my own experience- then someone did it. If isn't us, then who? If mankind can be eliminated from the equation, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

The truth is that the historical circumstantial evidence to support the possibility is so extensive and so abundant that unless you actively research this topic you could not possibly know how it can be possible.

Roswel? Haven't a fucking clue. Too ambiguous, and don't care.

The Jerusalem UFO? A very good hoax, but I was not fooled. Simply too good to be true.

Rendlesham? Too many inconsistencies.

But this at O'Hare- a daytime sighting with 12 credible witnesses- and with a history of this particular craft being identified numerous times over the past 80 years, this story actually has legs, and there is nothing ambiguous, no hint of a hoax, and any apparent inconsistencies are very well explained via triangulation.

With all evidence considered, and with triangulation in place, these witnesses seen a 35 foot oval craft, approximately 1700 feet above ground, that appeared to be spinning as it hovered, domed on top, and it blew a hole in the clouds while ascending at a speed so intense as to give the appearance that the craft simply disappeared.

If that is true- and I have no reason to doubt it- and with history on my side as well as my personal experiences, I have good rational reason to have a greater level of belief in the possibility of non human life existing and being present on earth than most anybody I know.

You? You have no reason to believe it. Neither does hardly anyone else here. You are incapable of believing it from your perspective because this subject is not of particular interest to you insomuch as it could become a passionate hobby, nor have you any experiences such as mine.

Yes, from your perspective you are entirely rational in how you view this topic.

But also, my perspective is equally rational based upon what I know about this subject.

And that's the way this actually is.

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24-09-2015, 07:34 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(24-09-2015 07:05 PM)Free Wrote:  You evaluate all available evidence

Which is none.

(24-09-2015 07:05 PM)Free Wrote:  and you simply make a judgement.

Which should be rational.

(24-09-2015 07:05 PM)Free Wrote:  I made a judgement because all the available evidence is more than what you see on the surface of this UFO report at O'Hare.

It's really not.

(24-09-2015 07:05 PM)Free Wrote:  So, how do I qualify the possibility that the aircraft could be controlled by non human intelligence?

You can't.

(24-09-2015 07:05 PM)Free Wrote:  Here's the reasoning:

Speculation.

(24-09-2015 07:05 PM)Free Wrote:  Firstly, I find it highly implausible that non human intelligent life doesn't exist elsewhere in the universe. In fact, most scientists agree that non human intelligent life existing in the universe is almost a certainty given the vastness of the universe, and the billions of star systems.

Irrelevant.

(24-09-2015 07:05 PM)Free Wrote:  But also because of my study of this subject of UFOs in general, which the described UFO at O'Hare is relevant as this description has a history dating back to some 65 - 70 years in which this type of aircraft has been described as being in existence, not just by ordinary people, or photographs, but also within the records of the US Government and other governments.

"Unknown" does not equal "aliens".

(24-09-2015 07:05 PM)Free Wrote:  When we see a consistency in descriptions of this type of aircraft from multiple people who's credibility is virtually without doubt

Which we don't.

(24-09-2015 07:05 PM)Free Wrote:  If these aircraft exist- and I know

Believe with no rational justification.

(24-09-2015 07:05 PM)Free Wrote:  they do from my own experience- then someone did it. If isn't us, then who?

Wizards.

(24-09-2015 07:05 PM)Free Wrote:  The truth is that the historical circumstantial evidence to support the possibility is so extensive and so abundant

Nonexistent.

(24-09-2015 07:05 PM)Free Wrote:  that unless you actively research this topic you could not possibly know how it can be possible.

This half of the sentence does not seem to be connected to its preceding clause.

(24-09-2015 07:05 PM)Free Wrote:  Roswel? Haven't a fucking clue. Too ambiguous, and don't care.

Balloon.

(24-09-2015 07:05 PM)Free Wrote:  But this at O'Hare- a daytime sighting with 12 credible

Four anonymous and contradictory.

(24-09-2015 07:05 PM)Free Wrote:  there is nothing ambiguous

Save everything.

(24-09-2015 07:05 PM)Free Wrote:  and any apparent inconsistencies are very well explained via triangulation.

Pure bullshit.

(24-09-2015 07:05 PM)Free Wrote:  If that is true- and I have no reason to doubt it

You do, but you are too silly to care.

(24-09-2015 07:05 PM)Free Wrote:  and with history on my side

It is not.

(24-09-2015 07:05 PM)Free Wrote:  as well as my personal experiences, I have good rational

Extremely silly.

(24-09-2015 07:05 PM)Free Wrote:  You? You have no reason to believe it.

Because you have no evidence.

(24-09-2015 07:05 PM)Free Wrote:  You are incapable of believing it from your perspective because this subject is not of particular interest to you insomuch as it could become a passionate hobby

It actually is.

Unfortunately for you, being passionate about something is not the same as being good at it.

(24-09-2015 07:05 PM)Free Wrote:  But also, my perspective is equally rational based upon what I know about this subject.

No, it isn't.

(24-09-2015 07:05 PM)Free Wrote:  And that's the way this actually is.

You are a deluded fool.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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24-09-2015, 07:47 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(24-09-2015 07:34 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 07:05 PM)Free Wrote:  You evaluate all available evidence

Which is none.

Denialism:

In human behavior, denialism is exhibited by individuals choosing to deny reality as a way to avoid dealing with an uncomfortable truth.

(Science determines the existence of intelligent alien life as being very probable. Evidence to suggest non human intelligent life is visiting earth does exist.)

Author Paul O'Shea remarks, "It is the refusal to accept an empirically verifiable reality. It is an essentially irrational action that withholds validation of a historical experience or event."

(Science determines the existence of intelligent alien life as being very probable. Historical evidence to suggest human interaction with possible non-human intelligent life does exist.)

In science, denialism has been defined as the rejection of basic concepts that are undisputed and well-supported parts of the scientific consensus on a topic in favor of ideas that are both radical and controversial.

(Science determines the existence of intelligent alien life as being very probable. Scientific consensus determines that the existence of non human intelligent life is a virtual certainty.)

It has been proposed that the various forms of denialism have the common feature of the rejection of overwhelming evidence and the generation of a controversy through attempts to deny that a consensus exists.

(Scientific consensus determines the existence of intelligent alien life as being very near absolute certainty.)

Several motivations and causes for denialism have been proposed, including religious beliefs and self-interest, or as a psychological defence mechanism against disturbing ideas.

(This is you.)

The terms Holocaust denialism and AIDS denialism have been used, and the term climate change denialists has been applied to those who argue against the scientific consensus that global warming is occurring and that human activity is its primary cause.

(And this is the type of person you identify with.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denialism

Good luck with that.

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24-09-2015, 07:49 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(24-09-2015 07:47 PM)Free Wrote:  (Science determines the existence of intelligent alien life as being very probable.

True.

(24-09-2015 07:47 PM)Free Wrote:  Evidence to suggest non human intelligent life is visiting earth does exist.)

False.

Unknowns are not evidence of alien visitation, no matter how much you wish they were.

(24-09-2015 07:47 PM)Free Wrote:  (This is you.)

The terms Holocaust denialism and AIDS denialism have been used, and the term climate change denialists has been applied to those who argue against the scientific consensus that global warming is occurring and that human activity is its primary cause.

(And this is the type of person you identify with.)

Good luck with that.

The sheer lack of self-awareness here is ridiculous.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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