UFO Disclosure
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24-09-2015, 07:54 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(24-09-2015 07:49 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  False.

Unknowns are not evidence of alien visitation, no matter how much you wish they were.

If it's beyond human capability, then the only other option is non-human, and that is a "known."

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(24-09-2015 07:47 PM)Free Wrote:  (This is you.)

The terms Holocaust denialism and AIDS denialism have been used, and the term climate change denialists has been applied to those who argue against the scientific consensus that global warming is occurring and that human activity is its primary cause.

(And this is the type of person you identify with.)

Good luck with that.

The sheer lack of self-awareness here is ridiculous.

With you it certainly is.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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24-09-2015, 07:56 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(24-09-2015 07:54 PM)Free Wrote:  If it's beyond human capability

Which has not been established, and assumes that a craft existed in the first place.

That has also not been established.

Try again.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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24-09-2015, 08:10 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(24-09-2015 07:56 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 07:54 PM)Free Wrote:  If it's beyond human capability

Which has not been established, and assumes that a craft existed in the first place.

That has also not been established.

Try again.

History shows us the development of the jet engine for aircraft, and that it was not in practice until the mid 1950s. History also shows us secret crafts of German engineering from WWII that in no way approximates anything described regarding the appearance and performance of this particular UFO at O'Hare, and what the Twining Memo and other government documents described.

All available historical evidence fails to account for the appearance and performance of this design of UFO as being in any way humanly capable.

Since there is no evidence whatsoever to demonstrate that humans were capable of creating anything at all that even remotely resembles such a craft, then we can safely conclude the possibility that humans did not create it. It is reasonable to use an Evidence of Absence argument here, and the Evidence of Absence demonstrates the non existence of a human design.

And if it's possible that we didn't create it, that leaves room for the possibility that somebody else did.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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24-09-2015, 08:14 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(24-09-2015 08:10 PM)Free Wrote:  Since there is no evidence whatsoever to demonstrate that humans were capable of creating anything at all that even remotely resembles such a craft, then we can safely conclude the possibility that humans did not create it.

Once again, you demonstrate your complete and utter lack of reading comprehension.

This is not an issue of establishing the limits of human engineering. It is a question of establishing that the craft behaved as you claim it did, or even that it existed at all.

You have failed to do either of these things.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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24-09-2015, 08:18 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(24-09-2015 08:14 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 08:10 PM)Free Wrote:  Since there is no evidence whatsoever to demonstrate that humans were capable of creating anything at all that even remotely resembles such a craft, then we can safely conclude the possibility that humans did not create it.

Once again, you demonstrate your complete and utter lack of reading comprehension.

This is not an issue of establishing the limits of human engineering. It is a question of establishing that the craft behaved as you claim it did, or even that it existed at all.

You have failed to do either of these things.

12 witnesses- and more- at O'Hare claim it did. The Twining Memo and other government documents describe the same type craft with virtually identical abilities.

With all those witnesses and government confirmation declaring these aircraft as being "real, and not fictitious," then that is enough for me to qualify the possibility.

It isn't enough for you, but you don't matter, for even if a little green man came down and bit you on the ass, you would deny it ever happened.

Laugh out load

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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24-09-2015, 08:21 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(24-09-2015 08:18 PM)Free Wrote:  12 witnesses- and more- at O'Hare claim it did.

Four anonymous, contradictory witnesses.

You can keep saying "twelve" all you like, but it's not going to get any more true.

(24-09-2015 08:18 PM)Free Wrote:  The Twining Memo and other government documents describe the same type craft with virtually identical abilities.

Because the Twining memo was released during the height of the UFO-sighting craze that followed the balloon crash at Roswell. And it wanted an investigation into the possibility, which turned up - once again, as it always does - nothing.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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25-09-2015, 06:58 AM (This post was last modified: 25-09-2015 07:02 AM by Free.)
RE: UFO Disclosure
(24-09-2015 08:21 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 08:18 PM)Free Wrote:  12 witnesses- and more- at O'Hare claim it did.

Four anonymous, contradictory witnesses.

You can keep saying "twelve" all you like, but it's not going to get any more true.

None of the 12 contradict each other at all. You just don't understand the case.

And I accept as true that 12 credible people, professionals in the airline industry, did witness an aircraft of unknown design and origin, hovering over O'Hare Airport.

There is no logical and/or rational reason to reject that claim. None.

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(24-09-2015 08:18 PM)Free Wrote:  The Twining Memo and other government documents describe the same type craft with virtually identical abilities.

Because the Twining memo was released during the height of the UFO-sighting craze that followed the balloon crash at Roswell. And it wanted an investigation into the possibility, which turned up - once again, as it always does - nothing.

Nope, the Twining Memo states clearly, after numerous investigations that:

2. It is the opinion that:

a. The phenomenon is something real and not visionary or fictitious.

b. There are objects probably approximating the shape of a disc, of such appreciable size as to appear to be as large as man-made aircraft.

They reached a qualified opinion, and positively concluded what you see above. Nobody can dispute this. You can try to twist it any which way you want, but the language is crystal clear.

And "many other legitimate government documents" positively confirm the existence of this particular aircraft as being real.

And all this most certainly can produce a rational and reasonable higher degree of belief in the possibility of non human intelligence visiting earth when all the evidence is viewed together.

If anyone actually investigates this and understands this, it would be irrational and unreasonable to conclude that there is no possibility, or that the possibility is so unreasonable as to be summarily dismissed.

Therefore, your opinion doesn't really matter. Nothing will, or can, convince you of a possibility, ever.

Therefore, what is "not proven" to you is, in fact, absolutely proven to the many others who actually know a great deal about this subject.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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25-09-2015, 07:17 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(25-09-2015 06:58 AM)Free Wrote:  Therefore, what is "not proven" to you is, in fact, absolutely proven to the many others who actually know a great deal about this subject.

Anonymous experts now... after anonymous witnesses Rolleyes How far can your Cognitive Dissonance-o-coaster take you? Find out after the break!

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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25-09-2015, 07:34 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(25-09-2015 07:17 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(25-09-2015 06:58 AM)Free Wrote:  Therefore, what is "not proven" to you is, in fact, absolutely proven to the many others who actually know a great deal about this subject.

Anonymous experts now... after anonymous witnesses Rolleyes How far can your Cognitive Dissonance-o-coaster take you? Find out after the break!

There are no anonymous experts, they are publicly known. And if you think the USAF and Army are anonymous, then it isn't me displaying cognitive dissonance since your propensity for denial of the obvious and refusal to properly investigate indicates an ingrained fear of an uncomfortable truth.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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25-09-2015, 09:02 AM (This post was last modified: 25-09-2015 09:34 AM by Peebothuhul.)
RE: UFO Disclosure
(24-09-2015 08:10 PM)Free Wrote:  History shows us the development of the jet engine for aircraft, and that it was not in practice until the mid 1950s.

This is not true. Whittle's efforts as well as those of others had many various types of turbines, both axial and radial, in working proto-type forms operating as early as the 1930 (With development work going back to the 1900's).

A jet powered Italian machine flew from flew from Milan's Linate Airport over Pisa and then landed at Rome's Guidonia Airport in 1939/40.

(24-09-2015 08:10 PM)Free Wrote:  History also shows us secret crafts of German engineering from WWII that in no way approximates anything described regarding the appearance and performance of this particular UFO at O'Hare, and what the Twining Memo and other government documents described.

Again, not true. Many sightings of unknown aerial vehicles go back to the age of balloons and zeppelins. With quite a few 'terror' phases along the way as people fearfully 'Watched the skies'.

(24-09-2015 08:10 PM)Free Wrote:  All available historical evidence fails to account for the appearance and performance of this design of UFO as being in any way humanly capable.

Partially true. However, that does not mean that any of them were in fact 'vehicles' of any kind.

(24-09-2015 08:10 PM)Free Wrote:  Since there is no evidence whatsoever to demonstrate that humans were capable of creating anything at all that even remotely resembles such a craft,

Citation needed.

Actually, kind of seriously (And speaking from a simply interested in the field lay-person) what amount of looking into the history of things moving about in the air have you done?

(24-09-2015 08:10 PM)Free Wrote:  ..... then we can safely conclude the possibility that humans did not create it. It is reasonable to use an Evidence of Absence argument here, and the Evidence of Absence demonstrates the non existence of a human design.

You can do what ever thinking you like. Smile

However, my return question is (Again,) if said things are machines and they are moving about in our skies... where do you propose they come from? How do they get here? Just saying "There are weird machines flying about..." does nothing to further ideas/knowledge/thinking about such things.

(24-09-2015 08:10 PM)Free Wrote:  And if it's possible that we didn't create it, that leaves room for the possibility that somebody else did.

It does not rule out them being artifacts of man. Just because 'We', the average Joe, do not know the state of play of the technical aspects of things does not just make them 'Alien craft'.





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