UFO Disclosure
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25-09-2015, 09:05 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
Expert UFOologists huh? They know how to fold the tinfoil just right.

Come on man, you've had ample opportunity to provide demonstrable evidence of aliens or even evidence that made the hypothesis plausible (since you insist on playing games) and have signally failed.

Let's make a list of the tactics you've used:
  • Allege existence of verifiable evidence. When challenged produce a news article and a report written by a pro-UFO group. Claim existence of 12 impeccable eyewitnesses.
  • Ignore all criticism of the sources and information you yourself supplied. Instead allege that your critics are lying.
  • Resort to childish insults and threats.
  • Scream about conspiracies between forum members to discredit you.
  • Claim that you have proven your critics to be liars.
  • Allege that "lots of people" have send you private messages agreeing with your stupidity.
  • Claim that lots of other unnamed people agree with you and are experts.

It's not even an exhaustive list Rolleyes

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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25-09-2015, 10:19 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(25-09-2015 06:58 AM)Free Wrote:  None of the 12

Four.

(25-09-2015 06:58 AM)Free Wrote:  contradict each other at all.

They all saw different things.

(25-09-2015 06:58 AM)Free Wrote:  And I accept as true that 12

Four.

(25-09-2015 06:58 AM)Free Wrote:  credible

Anonymous.

(25-09-2015 06:58 AM)Free Wrote:  people, professionals

Employees at an airport.

(25-09-2015 06:58 AM)Free Wrote:  in the airline industry, did witness an aircraft of unknown design and origin, hovering over O'Hare Airport.

There is no logical and/or rational reason to reject that claim. None.

Save the absolute lack of actual evidence supporting it.

You aren't getting past this, no matter how much you try to pretend it isn't there.

(25-09-2015 06:58 AM)Free Wrote:  Nope, the Twining Memo states clearly, after numerous investigations

Interviews with "witnesses".

(25-09-2015 06:58 AM)Free Wrote:  2. It is the opinion that:

a. The phenomenon is something real and not visionary or fictitious.

Irrelevant unless it can actually provide evidence to support this.

(25-09-2015 06:58 AM)Free Wrote:  They reached a qualified opinion, and positively concluded what you see above. Nobody can dispute this.

They failed to find any evidence to support it and the idea was subsequently discarded.

No one can dispute this.

(25-09-2015 06:58 AM)Free Wrote:  And all this most certainly can produce a rational

Credulous.

(25-09-2015 06:58 AM)Free Wrote:  and reasonable

Very silly.

(25-09-2015 06:58 AM)Free Wrote:  higher degree of belief in the possibility of non human intelligence visiting earth when all the evidence

Unverified anecdotes.

(25-09-2015 06:58 AM)Free Wrote:  If anyone actually investigates this and understands this, it would be irrational and unreasonable to conclude that there is no possibility

"Possibility" is meaningless.

(25-09-2015 06:58 AM)Free Wrote:  or that the possibility is so unreasonable as to be summarily dismissed.

It absolutely is.

(25-09-2015 06:58 AM)Free Wrote:  Therefore, your opinion doesn't really matter. Nothing will, or can, convince you of a possibility, ever.

No. Nothing you have presented will convince me of the rationality of your position, because your position is very, very silly.

You remain a deluded fool.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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25-09-2015, 02:11 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(25-09-2015 09:02 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 08:10 PM)Free Wrote:  History shows us the development of the jet engine for aircraft, and that it was not in practice until the mid 1950s.

This is not true. Whittle's efforts as well as those of others had many various types of turbines, both axial and radial, in working proto-type forms operating as early as the 1930 (With development work going back to the 1900's).

A jet powered Italian machine flew from flew from Milan's Linate Airport over Pisa and then landed at Rome's Guidonia Airport in 1939/40.

It was "not in practice," meaning "practical use," until the 1950s. Sure, many experiemental aircraft were being tested, by wide spread use of the jet engine didn't occur until the 1950s.

"The US introduced the North American B-45 Tornado, their first jet bomber, into service in 1948. Although capable of carrying nuclear weapons it was used for reconnaissance over Korea."

The history is here.

(24-09-2015 08:10 PM)Free Wrote:  History also shows us secret crafts of German engineering from WWII that in no way approximates anything described regarding the appearance and performance of this particular UFO at O'Hare, and what the Twining Memo and other government documents described.

Again, not true. Many sightings of unknown aerial vehicles go back to the age of balloons and zeppelins. With quite a few 'terror' phases along the way as people fearfully 'Watched the skies'. [/quote]

Please read carefully ...

"in no way approximates anything described regarding the appearance and performance of this particular UFO at O'Hare,"

Quote:
(24-09-2015 08:10 PM)Free Wrote:  All available historical evidence fails to account for the appearance and performance of this design of UFO as being in any way humanly capable.

Partially true. However, that does not mean that any of them were in fact 'vehicles' of any kind.

They were identified as aircraft.

Quote:
(24-09-2015 08:10 PM)Free Wrote:  Since there is no evidence whatsoever to demonstrate that humans were capable of creating anything at all that even remotely resembles such a craft,

Citation needed.

No citation required, as it does not apply. The burden of proof is upon those who claim that humans were capable of creating anything at all that even remotely resembles such a craft. I find no evidence, of any kind.

Quote:Actually, kind of seriously (And speaking from a simply interested in the field lay-person) what amount of looking into the history of things moving about in the air have you done?

History going back 400 years.

Quote:
(24-09-2015 08:10 PM)Free Wrote:  ..... then we can safely conclude the possibility that humans did not create it. It is reasonable to use an Evidence of Absence argument here, and the Evidence of Absence demonstrates the non existence of a human design.

You can do what ever thinking you like. Smile

Of course, so can anyone else. I will not prove any of this to you or anyone else. You can only prove it to yourself.

Quote:However, my return question is (Again,) if said things are machines and they are moving about in our skies... where do you propose they come from? How do they get here? Just saying "There are weird machines flying about..." does nothing to further ideas/knowledge/thinking about such things.

If they are non human, then the possibilities are limited to the following:

1. An undetected non human intelligent life form living here on earth.
2. Aliens from another planet/moon in our solar system.
3. Aliens from another star system.
4. Non human intelligent life from another dimension (which seems to be all the rave from scientists today, but I have doubts.)

Quote:
(24-09-2015 08:10 PM)Free Wrote:  And if it's possible that we didn't create it, that leaves room for the possibility that somebody else did.

It does not rule out them being artifacts of man. Just because 'We', the average Joe, do not know the state of play of the technical aspects of things does not just make them 'Alien craft'.

It's quite simple, if they were not, and cannot be created by mankind, then mankind did not create them.

The only option then is non human.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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25-09-2015, 02:20 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(25-09-2015 02:11 PM)Free Wrote:  
Quote:It does not rule out them being artifacts of man. Just because 'We', the average Joe, do not know the state of play of the technical aspects of things does not just make them 'Alien craft'.

It's quite simple, if they were not, and cannot be created by mankind, then mankind did not create them.

The only option then is non human.

If pigs could fly then we'd have Porcine Airlines Rolleyes You haven't proven, substantiated or even made a plausible case for your premises, so why would anyone grant your conclusion?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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25-09-2015, 02:24 PM (This post was last modified: 25-09-2015 02:37 PM by Free.)
RE: UFO Disclosure
(25-09-2015 09:05 AM)morondog Wrote:  Expert UFOologists huh? They know how to fold the tinfoil just right.

Come on man, you've had ample opportunity to provide demonstrable evidence of aliens or even evidence that made the hypothesis plausible (since you insist on playing games) and have signally failed.

Let's make a list of the tactics you've used:
  • Allege existence of verifiable evidence. When challenged produce a news article and a report written by a pro-UFO group. Claim existence of 12 impeccable eyewitnesses.
  • Ignore all criticism of the sources and information you yourself supplied. Instead allege that your critics are lying.
  • Resort to childish insults and threats.
  • Scream about conspiracies between forum members to discredit you.
  • Claim that you have proven your critics to be liars.
  • Allege that "lots of people" have send you private messages agreeing with your stupidity.
  • Claim that lots of other unnamed people agree with you and are experts.

It's not even an exhaustive list Rolleyes

The possibility exists, and it's been proven.

It doesn't matter in the slightest whether you think so or not. You do not get to decide whether or not the evidence supports the possibility, because your opinion is unqualified.

And I will not be pouring years of research and study into a thread in which your confirmation bias against such a possibility has already put you out of the equation.

You are not capable of having neither a qualified belief or disbelief in this matter.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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25-09-2015, 02:38 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(25-09-2015 02:24 PM)Free Wrote:  The possibility exists, and it's been proven.

It doesn't matter in the slightest whether you think so or not. You do not get to decide whether or not the evidence supports the possibility, because your opinion is unqualified.

And I will not be pouring years of research and study into a thread in which your confirmation bias against such a possibility has already put you out of the equation.

You are not capable of having a qualified belief, or disbelief for that matter.

The possibility that aliens have visited Earth does exist, I grant you that. It doesn't *need* proving. It's a fucking hypothesis.

You have presented zero evidence that it's probable that aliens have visited Earth. No one has.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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25-09-2015, 02:39 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(25-09-2015 02:24 PM)Free Wrote:  
(25-09-2015 09:05 AM)morondog Wrote:  Expert UFOologists huh? They know how to fold the tinfoil just right.

Come on man, you've had ample opportunity to provide demonstrable evidence of aliens or even evidence that made the hypothesis plausible (since you insist on playing games) and have signally failed.

Let's make a list of the tactics you've used:
  • Allege existence of verifiable evidence. When challenged produce a news article and a report written by a pro-UFO group. Claim existence of 12 impeccable eyewitnesses.
  • Ignore all criticism of the sources and information you yourself supplied. Instead allege that your critics are lying.
  • Resort to childish insults and threats.
  • Scream about conspiracies between forum members to discredit you.
  • Claim that you have proven your critics to be liars.
  • Allege that "lots of people" have send you private messages agreeing with your stupidity.
  • Claim that lots of other unnamed people agree with you and are experts.

It's not even an exhaustive list Rolleyes

The possibility exists, and it's been proven.

It doesn't matter in the slightest whether you think so or not. You do not get to decide whether or not the evidence supports the possibility, because your opinion is unqualified.

And I will not be pouring years of research and study into a thread in which your confirmation bias against such a possibility has already put you out of the equation.

You are not capable of having neither a qualified belief or disbelief in this matter.


When all else fails, claim victory by fiat. Facepalm

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25-09-2015, 02:40 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(25-09-2015 02:20 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(25-09-2015 02:11 PM)Free Wrote:  It's quite simple, if they were not, and cannot be created by mankind, then mankind did not create them.

The only option then is non human.

If pigs could fly then we'd have Porcine Airlines Rolleyes You haven't proven, substantiated or even made a plausible case for your premises, so why would anyone grant your conclusion?

Because other people do support my conclusion. They just will not engage in this thread because they see what happens when someone dares to take a stand on what they believe to be true here.

It's rational, well researched, evidenced, reasoned, and demonstrates an obvious possibility.

In my view, it is completely irrational to conclude that no possibility exists, or that the possibility is unworthy of consideration.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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25-09-2015, 02:43 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(25-09-2015 02:39 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(25-09-2015 02:24 PM)Free Wrote:  The possibility exists, and it's been proven.

It doesn't matter in the slightest whether you think so or not. You do not get to decide whether or not the evidence supports the possibility, because your opinion is unqualified.

And I will not be pouring years of research and study into a thread in which your confirmation bias against such a possibility has already put you out of the equation.

You are not capable of having neither a qualified belief or disbelief in this matter.


When all else fails, claim victory by fiat. Facepalm

It isn't a matter of winning or losing. It's strictly a matter of what one knows, and what others do not.

When they have no education, nor have ever researched the topic, nor have any desire to do so, how then is their opinion qualified enough to believe or disbelieve?

Intellectual honesty demands that their best position is to state is "I don't know."

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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25-09-2015, 02:47 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(25-09-2015 02:40 PM)Free Wrote:  
(25-09-2015 02:20 PM)morondog Wrote:  If pigs could fly then we'd have Porcine Airlines Rolleyes You haven't proven, substantiated or even made a plausible case for your premises, so why would anyone grant your conclusion?

Because other people do support my conclusion. They just will not engage in this thread because they see what happens when someone dares to take a stand on what they believe to be true here.
Yeah, they get asked to substantiate it Rolleyes How scary is that Gasp

Quote:It's rational, well researched, evidenced, reasoned, and demonstrates an obvious possibility.
"Obvious" huh? Like that incident was "obviously" an aircraft which "obviously" was seen by human observers to go orbital in seconds. If it's so goddamn obvious why's your alleged evidence so shit?

Quote:In my view, it is completely irrational to conclude that no possibility exists, or that the possibility is unworthy of consideration.
I granted you that the possibility exists already. It's also possible that your brain is inhabited by pixies. I submit that *that* hypothesis is as worthy of consideration.

Come on, demonstrate that it is *probable* that aliens have visited Earth. That's your position right? "Possible" is a given, because there's no way to say that it's *impossible*, in the same way that there's no way to say that pigs can't use antigravity when no one's looking.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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