UFO Disclosure
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26-09-2015, 02:42 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(26-09-2015 02:35 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(26-09-2015 02:29 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  And this is exactly why claims, no matter who they come from or how much of an expert they seem to be, are not evidence. Because people, even expert people, can be wrong.

Unless there are 12 of them in perfect agreement, and they all happen to be aircraft experts Dodgy

Sure they can be wrong, but that has never been demonstrated, and that's why it is evidence.

There is no evidence whatsoever that those two letters from the US government were wrong about anything, nor any evidence that the witnesses at O'Hare were wrong about what they described.

Hence, for just you to be right, everybody else must be wrong. Yet, you are not a witness nor an investigator such as those high ranking military officials, or the 12 who were professionals in the airline industry.

So, explain to me why I should accept your doubts when you are not a witness or investigator, and why I should choose your arguments over all these other highly qualified people?

Can you compare to any of them?

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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26-09-2015, 02:46 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(26-09-2015 02:42 PM)Free Wrote:  
(26-09-2015 02:35 PM)morondog Wrote:  Unless there are 12 of them in perfect agreement, and they all happen to be aircraft experts Dodgy

Sure they can be wrong, but that has never been demonstrated.

Burden of proof fallacy. Again.

It is not up to us to demonstrate that a bare assertion is false. It is up to you to demonstrate that it is true.

This is one of the most basic and fundamental principles of logic, Free, and it's painfully simple to boot. Your absolute refusal to acknowledge it does not help your case.

(26-09-2015 02:42 PM)Free Wrote:  There is no evidence whatsoever that those two letters from the US government were wrong about anything, nor any evidence that the witnesses at O'Hare were wrong about what they described.

Save the complete lack of evidence where it should be found, you mean.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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26-09-2015, 02:49 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(26-09-2015 01:17 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(26-09-2015 01:12 PM)Free Wrote:  Then the collection of evidence- which is extremely extensive- meets all those requirements.

You don't understand what those words mean.

At all actually. Free what evidence have you presented that is demonstrable,testable, variable, and patently demonstrable.

Eyewitnesses and government documents? That...does not even remotely come close to what I said. At all.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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26-09-2015, 03:51 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(26-09-2015 02:49 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(26-09-2015 01:17 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  You don't understand what those words mean.

At all actually. Free what evidence have you presented that is demonstrable,testable, variable, and patently demonstrable.

Eyewitnesses and government documents? That...does not even remotely come close to what I said. At all.

That is not true.

The government documents are 1) demonstrable, 2) testable, 3) verifiable, and 4) falsifiable.

1. They have been demonstrated to exist.
2. They exist in the National Archives, and you can test that.
3. They can be verified.
4. They can be falsified; just prove they are fake, or that the information in them does not conclude that these aircraft they described do not exist.

There you go.

Work with that.

Big Grin

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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26-09-2015, 03:53 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
Well Free, I guess you're a Christian *and* a Muslim *and* a Hindu then.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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26-09-2015, 03:54 PM (This post was last modified: 26-09-2015 04:15 PM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: UFO Disclosure
(26-09-2015 03:51 PM)Free Wrote:  
(26-09-2015 02:49 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  At all actually. Free what evidence have you presented that is demonstrable,testable, variable, and patently demonstrable.

Eyewitnesses and government documents? That...does not even remotely come close to what I said. At all.

That is not true.

The government documents are 1) demonstrable, 2) testable, 3) verifiable, and 4) falsifiable.

1. They have been demonstrated to exist.
2. They exist in the National Archives, and you can test that.
3. They can be verified.
4. They can be falsified; just prove they are fake, or that the information in them does not conclude that these aircraft they described do not exist.

There you go.

Work with that.

Big Grin
[Image: 102172-bro-do-you-even-science-meme-b-2xp5.jpeg]

You really don't know what I'm talking about at all when I say verifiable, demonstrable, testable and falsifiable evidence do you. Like a fucking brick wall this guy.

The Bible is 1) demonstrable, 2) testable, 3) verifiable, and 4) falsifiable.

1. It has been demonstrated to exist.
2. It exist in the Congressional Library, and you can test that.
3. It can be verified.
4. It can be falsified; just prove that God does not exist, or that the information in the Bible does not conclude that Jesus rose from the dead.

Honestly you need to take a class on basic logic and then one on how the Scientific Method works and why.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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26-09-2015, 04:18 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(26-09-2015 03:51 PM)Free Wrote:  That is not true.

The government documents are 1) demonstrable, 2) testable, 3) verifiable, and 4) falsifiable.

1. They have been demonstrated to exist.
2. They exist in the National Archives, and you can test that.
3. They can be verified.
4. They can be falsified; just prove they are fake, or that the information in them does not conclude that these aircraft they described do not exist.

There you go.

Work with that.

Wonderful. You have established that these documents exist.

You are no closer to establishing that they are actually evidence of alien visitation.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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26-09-2015, 04:25 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(26-09-2015 03:54 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(26-09-2015 03:51 PM)Free Wrote:  That is not true.

The government documents are 1) demonstrable, 2) testable, 3) verifiable, and 4) falsifiable.

1. They have been demonstrated to exist.
2. They exist in the National Archives, and you can test that.
3. They can be verified.
4. They can be falsified; just prove they are fake, or that the information in them does not conclude that these aircraft they described do not exist.

There you go.

Work with that.

Big Grin
[Image: 102172-bro-do-you-even-science-meme-b-2xp5.jpeg]

You really don't know what I'm talking about at all when I say verifiable, demonstrable, testable and falsifiable evidence do you. Like a fucking brick wall this guy.

The Bible is 1) demonstrable, 2) testable, 3) verifiable, and 4) falsifiable.

1. It has been demonstrated to exist.
2. It exist in the Congressional Library, and you can test that.
3. It can be verified.
4. It can be falsified; just prove that God does not exist, or that the information in the Bible does not conclude that Jesus rose from the dead.

Honestly you need to take a class on basic logic and then one on how the Scientific Method works and why.

Yep, so is every book ever written, including all educational books on physics, history, all sciences etc.

Now prove them all false.

Big Grin

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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26-09-2015, 04:31 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
In all seriousness, Free, you seem to be incapable of differentiating between verifying that a claim has been made and verifying that the claim is true.

It has been pointed out previously, but it bears repeating that this is the same nonsense peddled by theists regarding the Bible as being evidence of their god's existence. The fact that the claim of Jesus' status as the son of God and his various miracles was written about by multiple, credible eyewitnesses and so forth...

...Hell, it even matches in the number of witnesses. There were twelve disciples, after all (even if there are only four Gospels - but mixing up twelve and four is another problem you seem to have). And your pointless little games about shifting the burden of proof are pretty much word-for-word lifted from Apologetics 101 as well; "we know the Bible exists, so now it's your job to prove it wrong".

That doesn't hold water for them any more than it does for you.

The burden of proof is on you, Free, no matter how much you want to pretend it isn't.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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26-09-2015, 04:43 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(26-09-2015 04:25 PM)Free Wrote:  
(26-09-2015 03:54 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  [Image: 102172-bro-do-you-even-science-meme-b-2xp5.jpeg]

You really don't know what I'm talking about at all when I say verifiable, demonstrable, testable and falsifiable evidence do you. Like a fucking brick wall this guy.

The Bible is 1) demonstrable, 2) testable, 3) verifiable, and 4) falsifiable.

1. It has been demonstrated to exist.
2. It exist in the Congressional Library, and you can test that.
3. It can be verified.
4. It can be falsified; just prove that God does not exist, or that the information in the Bible does not conclude that Jesus rose from the dead.

Honestly you need to take a class on basic logic and then one on how the Scientific Method works and why.

Yep, so is every book ever written, including all educational books on physics, history, all sciences etc.

Now prove them all false.

Big Grin
lolwut?

That documents exist is not in contention (fucking hell government documents aren't even what I asked for) by anyone Free.

Seriously asking now, do you even understand what I'm asking for?

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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