UFO Disclosure
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27-09-2015, 05:58 PM (This post was last modified: 27-09-2015 07:05 PM by Free.)
RE: UFO Disclosure
(27-09-2015 04:38 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(27-09-2015 03:04 PM)Free Wrote:  Derp derp derp Ala Derpity herpaderp.
Are you saying it's impossible that he could be lying?

Oh no, what I am saying is that I said the following:

Quote:You assert the possibility that the reporter for the Chicago Tribune may be dishonest in some way, without providing any fucking reason or evidence to say it.

Then you denied saying the above with:

Quote:No actually dipshit I did not. Learn to fucking read.

And then I reminded you that you did say it by quoting you:

Quote: OK but the claim, much like the bible, is not proof of the claim. Without proof of identity the only evidence we have is this: that the Jurno made a claim. He could be lying.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid860852

Yeah ... yeah that's what I am saying. What do you think of that?

Quote:So in your mentally deranged state you think it's fine to assert space wizards have traveled here from another starsystem to hang out above an airport for a couple of minutes for...some reason I'm sure... before leaving the planet, a trip that was observed by exactly zero amateur astronomers, NASA, or any photographer and left behind exactly zero testable evidence and didn't show up on any equipment specifically designed to track aircraft (of which you have provided zero demonstrable evidence for aliens and no good reason other then that it's your presupposition).... but the possibility that 1 guy COULD be lying, a possibility which is very real BECAUSE he has not met his burden of proof is too much for you?

Well now, I have looked through this entire thread and do not recall saying anything about "space wizards." Could you please be so kind as to point me to any quote of mine where I said anything about "space wizards?"

And about the reporter, it's more than just him. I gave you all the links to several articles and videos that show these witnesses were also interviewed by numerous media outlets. Hence, NUMEROUS media outlets and investigators all confirmed these witnesses, and NONE of these outlets said anything about the reporter being some kind of a liar.

Yet here you are asserting that he could possibly be a liar when you have no evidence, no reason, and no justifiable rationale to qualify such an outrageous and hostile assertion against an innocent man.

Quote:So aliens are a possibility because they MIGHT exist but a guy lying is just crossing the fucking line with you eh?

Why are you so stuck on the idea that the guy could be lying? What compels you to arrive at such possible conclusion when his own anonymous witnesses have appeared on other media outlets getting interviewed?

Are you trying to suggest that the Chicago Tribune, NARCAP, CNN, and other outlets all conspired to create these witnesses out of thin air?

If you believe in conspiracy theories then you are far worse off then anyone could view me.

Quote:Your a bad punchline to a worse joke.

Horrible insult dude. I mean seriously, if you want a battle of wits with me the least you could do is arm yourself.

Quote:No actually dipshit I did not. Learn to fucking read. Also fuck you, I'm still waiting for you to prove their credibility.

Oh yes, all those media outlets and investigators such as NARCAP are in some kind of a conspiracy regarding 12 professionals in the airline business identifying something as an aircraft of unknown design and origin.

Yep ... that's pretty much what YOU need to work with at the moment.

Quote:
Quote:Let's make a scene here
Oh go swallow your own microdick sally, I said that WITHOUT the burden of proof being met it's not possible to know with any kind of accuracy if their claims are true or not.

What's so difficult to believe here? Why is it so hard for you to accept that 12 professionals in the airline industry identified something an an aircraft of unknown design and origin? Why are you having a hard time accepting the fact that all these media outlets that interviewed these witnesses all agreed on their credentials?

What's the problem? Everybody lied? What the fuck? Nobody at the FAA or United Airways denied that these people worked there, or denied their credentials, or denied their professions.

So whatever you are dreaming up about all this only exists in your head, because it is completely irrational for you to assert that those witnesses are not who the media claims them to be.

Quote: They could absolutely be true, they could have misremembered, they could have been coerced (intentionally or unintentionally), lead by the jurno, out right lying, or fucking werewolves for all we know. I never said they ARE mistaken I said it's possible they are and the justification for that is that they have not met their burden of proof. I'M not responsible for YOUR inability to understand how the burden of proof works.
I don't have to provide any evidence whatsoever to doubt the accuracy of their claims while their claims are UNPROVEN which hey they fucking are.

Yes, yes, yes, all these assertions.

Yet here we have TWELVE professionals in the aviation business all claiming to one and/or several media outlets that they all identified something as an aircraft of unknown design and origin.

So all twelve were coerced into the same lie? For what reason, and what evidence can you provide to substantiate this assertion?

All 12 lied, and yet after 9 years not one of them was ever exposed as a liar? Don't you think that with the reporter claiming that United Airways lied, that United Airways should respond by saying the reporter lied? Why didn't they? Why didn't United Airways make a statement to the effect that none of those employees exist, or that they all lied? Why didn't they?

You have become so ridiculously irrational that I can't believe you are actually trying to argue this way. You are making crazy irrational assertions that clearly have not been well thought out. You are making unsubstantiated claims with absolutely no fucking evidence whatsoever.

And Moms thinks I am the one making unsubstantiated assertions here? She really needs to read this thread from beginning to end to see the kind of bullshit unsubstantiated assertions you make virtually every single post.

Quote:I think it's hilarious that the guy "just trying to prove a possibility" is getting all but hurt over someone saying it's possible they were mistaken. Is it impossible they were not mistaken?

No butt hurt happening here dude, and I have no problem with you stating a possibility that they were mistaken as long as you find some kind of evidence accompanied by rationalization to qualify the possibility of being worthy of consideration.

But you don't understand how to qualify a possibility; rather you just spit them out as if they mean something.

They are fucking meaningless when they are unsubstantiated. Absolutely fucking meaningless.

Quote:Your hypocrisy is growing tedious and I'm losing the will to deal with it over and over and over and over and over.

Then gather yourself together, calm down, and think clearly. You are not thinking this clearly at all, and are so hell-bent on proving me wrong that you are pulling unsubstantiated possibilities out of your ass and getting screwed over because of it.

Substantiate your claims, otherwise they are rubbish.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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27-09-2015, 06:04 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(27-09-2015 05:34 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(27-09-2015 05:01 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  If you think that's bad I'd draw your attention to earlier in the thread, if you missed, it, where he accused you of being manipulated and more or less duped by morondog and that's why you came into the thread the first time to warn him against continuing his noose nonsense.

He's one of the best examples of Dunning-Kruger we have had in some time now.

It's funny many people make the assumption that because I don't post in a thread I haven't actually read it.

What's even more funny is how people cannot provide any evidence of an actual threat being made.

It's ridiculously hilarious actually.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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27-09-2015, 06:40 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(27-09-2015 04:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(27-09-2015 04:15 PM)Free Wrote:  Without the anecdotal evidence to begin with, there would be no Big Bang theory at all, or any theory, or any discovery.

It all begins with what we observe, which then generates enough belief to investigate it further.

It does not generate belief - it generates questions.

Without belief in a possibility, there could be no questions.

Quote:
Quote:Has anyone actually observed metric space expansion? No, but we all agree it exists without ever being capable of observing it. It just makes sense despite it not being known as an axiomatic truth.

We observe the red shift, an observable effect of the expansion. One cannot observe 'metric space expansion'.

Yet you are forced to believe it exists when you cannot observe it in any way, correct?

Quote:
Quote:But we cannot prove it, therefore we are in a state of belief about it because we believe in the equations.

No, we believe observable evidence. The maths are a model.

And there's your state of belief. That's all I was looking for, a little honesty here.

You believe the observable evidence, and you also believe what cannot be observed, such as metric space expansion. And then upon those beliefs, you conclude the possibility of the Big Bang.

And that is perfectly normal.

Quote:
Quote:Can we actually prove that galaxies are moving away from each other? We see how they appear that way from earth, but we have no idea how they would appear if we were able to escape the gravitational time dilation or gravitational compression that may be compressing space in our vicinity due to the effects of our planets and the sun.

Neither of those is strong enough, by orders of magnitude, to have the effect of changing the observed changes in wavelength, and they are not even applicable to Hubble's Law.

But how can we know that? I mean we've never been outside the gravitational effect of our solar system to make any kind of comparison. Do we really have any idea how much of a multiplication of metric space expansion can be compared to our point here on earth? 5X? 10x? 1000X?

Do we know?

Quote:
Quote:If we could escape gravitational influences, would the galaxies still seem like they are drifting apart? And would the currently agreed upon distances to other stars actually be far far less than what we observe from earth?

We do not know. All we can do is believe via the best information available.

Yes, we do know. Gravity is the weakest force and would have no appreciable effect on those observations.

But again, we've never been outside the gravitational effect of our solar system, so how can we be so certain of how much space expands until we get outside of our solar system?

Do we have any data at all on how much space expands outside gravitational influences?

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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27-09-2015, 10:11 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(27-09-2015 06:40 PM)Free Wrote:  
(27-09-2015 04:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  It does not generate belief - it generates questions.

Without belief in a possibility, there could be no questions.

Quote:We observe the red shift, an observable effect of the expansion. One cannot observe 'metric space expansion'.

Yet you are forced to believe it exists when you cannot observe it in any way, correct?

Quote:No, we believe observable evidence. The maths are a model.

And there's your state of belief. That's all I was looking for, a little honesty here.

You believe the observable evidence, and you also believe what cannot be observed, such as metric space expansion. And then upon those beliefs, you conclude the possibility of the Big Bang.

And that is perfectly normal.

Quote:Neither of those is strong enough, by orders of magnitude, to have the effect of changing the observed changes in wavelength, and they are not even applicable to Hubble's Law.

But how can we know that? I mean we've never been outside the gravitational effect of our solar system to make any kind of comparison. Do we really have any idea how much of a multiplication of metric space expansion can be compared to our point here on earth? 5X? 10x? 1000X?

Do we know?

Quote:Yes, we do know. Gravity is the weakest force and would have no appreciable effect on those observations.

But again, we've never been outside the gravitational effect of our solar system, so how can we be so certain of how much space expands until we get outside of our solar system?

Do we have any data at all on how much space expands outside gravitational influences?


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27-09-2015, 11:21 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(27-09-2015 06:40 PM)Free Wrote:  Without belief in a possibility, there could be no questions.

Still not evidence.

(27-09-2015 06:40 PM)Free Wrote:  Yet you are forced to believe

Conclude.

You really don't seem to understand this whole "logic" thing.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
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27-09-2015, 11:50 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(27-09-2015 03:42 PM)Free Wrote:  
(27-09-2015 03:31 PM)morondog Wrote:  Cute. If you were gonna retreat to a position this vapidly unfalsifiable, why'd you even mention the word evidence?

Because the evidence can be interpreted to support the argument, especially when said evidence directly relates to the argument.

Some of you here keep insisting that there is no supporting evidence. The reality is, there is plenty, but you refuse to acknowledge it as supporting evidence. You make assertions against the supporting evidence, but do not substantiate those assertions with any counter-evidence or reasonable rationale.

Anybody can say "No, that is not evidence," but those types of claims are pointless, and assertive with no grounds to qualify them with any truth.

Now, you can look at this argument one way or the other, or ... you can look at it from both sides.

You people are only seeing it from one side, because you are so focused on me personally that you cannot see what is really there.

I see both sides, and can anticipate any counter-arguments you make because I can see it from both sides.

This is not my first trip to the rodeo with this topic, and it won't be my last. But the arguments I have seen against mine here ... are horrible. The reason they are horrible is that you won't stay focused on the subject.

I note that none of your rambling refutes the Noddy riding Santa Claus's stolen sleigh hypothesis.
  • Unidentified flying object. Check.
  • Unknown aerial capabilities. Check.
  • Unknown reasons for being over an airport. Check.
  • Supported by observational "evidence". Check. In fact 12 reliable witnesses said they saw Noddy *in* the actual sleigh. If you dispute this, I want to know the exact citation for where your 12 witnesses stated that they saw an alien craft, *all 12 of them*. Wikipedia doesn't count, in case you had missed that people pointed that fact out to you multiple times.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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28-09-2015, 06:39 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
For those who may not know who Noddy is...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noddy_%28character%29

I now return you to your regularly scheduled trainwreck...
Popcorn

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28-09-2015, 07:59 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(27-09-2015 11:21 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(27-09-2015 06:40 PM)Free Wrote:  Without belief in a possibility, there could be no questions.

Still not evidence.

(27-09-2015 06:40 PM)Free Wrote:  Yet you are forced to believe

Conclude.

You really don't seem to understand this whole "logic" thing.

You really don't seem to understand that when it comes to scientific theories, you are a "true believer."

Thumbsup

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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28-09-2015, 08:13 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(28-09-2015 07:59 AM)Free Wrote:  You really don't seem to understand that when it comes to scientific theories, you are a "true believer."

Thumbsup

Add "irony" to the list of shit that you truly have no fucking clue about.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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28-09-2015, 08:28 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(28-09-2015 08:13 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(28-09-2015 07:59 AM)Free Wrote:  You really don't seem to understand that when it comes to scientific theories, you are a "true believer."

Thumbsup

Add "irony" to the list of shit that you truly have no fucking clue about.

There's nothing ironic about stating a truth. If you believe that the Big bang is possible, then you are a believer.

What's ironic about that?

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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