UFO Disclosure
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10-09-2015, 10:37 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(10-09-2015 10:21 AM)Free Wrote:  So, should I somehow accept your opinion of this verses the opinions of astronauts, airforce pilots, politicians, defence ministers, military personnel, foreign governments, and numerous scientists?

My opinion? No. The facts, yes.

None of these people have ever presented any actual evidence of alien visitation.

(10-09-2015 10:21 AM)Free Wrote:  
Quote:All of the above is utterly ridiculous. You're quite right at saying that it's not Star Trek, though. Star Trek was more believable.

And again, since you do not explain your reasoning as to why any of it is ridiculous, then your claim against it is ridiculous in itself, and worthless.

Don't try to fisk* me if you don't understand how it works. As I go into my reasoning literally a sentence later, you just make yourself look foolish.

(10-09-2015 10:21 AM)Free Wrote:  And your analogy is false for the simple fact that almost on a daily basis we discover new species of plants and animals. We even find new fossils of new species, including one that was published just today.

So you have no valid point here at all. Another false comparison proven wrong.

You really don't understand a damn thing you're talking about, do you?

This is not another type of fossil or a subspecies of tropical lizards. You are positing the possibility of a sapient, civilized and technologically advanced species present on Earth alongside us without any of us noticing.

One of us is certainly making a false analogy. It's not me.

(10-09-2015 10:21 AM)Free Wrote:  
Quote:If they "have no base planet", how the hell did life originate in the vacuum of space, let alone evolve to sapient levels and construct a space ship around itself?

That is not for us to answer, is it?

Or to think through at all, apparently.

You really don't seem to understand this whole "ad hoc hypotheses are bad" concept. Your posited "space nomad" idea solves precisely none of the problems associated with the horrific distances involved in interstellar travel, and just adds about a dozen of its own.

(10-09-2015 10:21 AM)Free Wrote:  
Quote:[/i] And if there's a spacefaring civilization hiding within our own solar system, why have we never seen any of them whizzing about despite the fact that we've been watching them for literally decades?

Ummm ... maybe that's the point of all the UFO reports?

Circular, and not at all an actual answer to the point raised, which is in regard to actual observation of the other planets in the solar system. We aren't blind out there, you know.

Try again.

(10-09-2015 10:21 AM)Free Wrote:  Do you not understand how you fucking contradict yourself?

I have not contradicted myself. You simply fail to understand what is being said to you.

(10-09-2015 10:21 AM)Free Wrote:  
Quote:Oh, I'm certainly learning something.

No, the only thing on your agenda is to debunk rather than discuss. You are incapable of learning with your psychological disposition.

...he said, as he stated with a straight face that an technologically advanced, sapient, non-human civilization may be dwelling on Earth alongside us, unknown to the population at large.

I am perfectly capable of learning. It just happens that what I have learned is that you, and all the rest of those who share your belief in alien visitation, are very, very silly people.

*: "Fisking" is the term for the style of posting that I employ, picking out important points to highlight while trimming the rest.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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10-09-2015, 10:52 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(10-09-2015 10:00 AM)Free Wrote:  Oh, and one other question regarding whether or not multiple eyewitness testimony is inadequate.

Let me see a show of hands to the following question:

Question: Should we overturn all convictions of verbal sexual harassment because we somehow think the multiple eyewitness testimonies are inadequate?

After all, there is no "physical evidence" whatsoever, so don't you think that verbal sexual harassment should not be a criminal offence?

Tongue

Truth about the universe is not decided by legal logic nor courtroom procedures, but by the scientific method.

The processes and standards are different.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-09-2015, 10:53 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(09-09-2015 08:27 PM)Free Wrote:  Conclusion: False Comparison.

Not at all. You are inserting your personal beliefs into unknown areas when you argue, "UFOs are alien". As I've already shown, that leap is unsupportable because its two premises have absolutely no evidence, and one of those premises is so improbable as to require definitive evidence before it can be granted.

Lacking that evidence, you're still inserting your belief into a gap in knowledge without justification.

It may not be about religion (or it may, depends on how "passionate" you are about it), but this is classic GotG thinking.
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10-09-2015, 10:55 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(10-09-2015 10:37 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(10-09-2015 10:31 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Ok can anyone tell me the purpose of these supposed alien visitations clearly its not to say hello or make our acquaintance so what the hell are they doing coming all this way sightseeing?

They know how humans react to things. It's a matter of staying save but exploring a resource riddled species.

I don't take any documentation of events with much esteem though, It's as valuable to me as NDE claims and remarkably they both scale out to the same flaws of influenced testimonies and restrengthening ones mental imagines that already existed instead of creating new ideas.
That begs the question if they are so technologically advanced why get so close if they can fly faster than light then one would think they could scan us from a distance and get all the info they need unless of course they are nomadic which is all we need ... Bedouin aliens Big Grin
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10-09-2015, 11:13 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(10-09-2015 10:53 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Not at all. You are inserting your personal beliefs into unknown areas when you argue, "UFOs are alien". As I've already shown, that leap is unsupportable because its two premises have absolutely no evidence, and one of those premises is so improbable as to require definitive evidence before it can be granted.

Lacking that evidence, you're still inserting your belief into a gap in knowledge without justification.

It may not be about religion (or it may, depends on how "passionate" you are about it), but this is classic GotG thinking.

Quite.

The only reason that one would come to the conclusion that unidentified flying objects are alien in origin is a personal bias towards that idea. Even ignoring every single other problem with it, the absolute best that alien visitation proponents have is "it's an unidentified craft".

The leap from this to aliens is as utterly silly as it is possible to be.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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10-09-2015, 11:18 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(10-09-2015 04:21 AM)JonMJ33 Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 01:10 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  You could almost say he's gone over the moon with it.

You could also say your comment is useless.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/humor
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10-09-2015, 11:19 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(10-09-2015 10:37 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(10-09-2015 10:21 AM)Free Wrote:  So, should I somehow accept your opinion of this verses the opinions of astronauts, airforce pilots, politicians, defence ministers, military personnel, foreign governments, and numerous scientists?

My opinion? No. The facts, yes.

None of these people have ever presented any actual evidence of alien visitation.

Actual physical evidence may be required to conclusively prove the existence of alien visitation, but multiple eyewitness testimony of the exact same event which defies all known aspects of human origin is indeed evidence to support the possibility.

Sure, it can support the possibility of numerous other things also, but with careful evaluation and reasoning of all other possibilities insomuch as they are virtually eliminated, then the one lone possibility for non human intelligence looms very high since we already know- however remote- the possibility of alien visitation exists.

Quote:
(10-09-2015 10:21 AM)Free Wrote:  And again, since you do not explain your reasoning as to why any of it is ridiculous, then your claim against it is ridiculous in itself, and worthless.

Don't try to fisk* me if you don't understand how it works. As I go into my reasoning literally a sentence later, you just make yourself look foolish.

No, I make you look foolish and will do it again.

Quote:
(10-09-2015 10:21 AM)Free Wrote:  And your analogy is false for the simple fact that almost on a daily basis we discover new species of plants and animals. We even find new fossils of new species, including one that was published just today.

So you have no valid point here at all. Another false comparison proven wrong.

You really don't understand a damn thing you're talking about, do you?

This is not another type of fossil or a subspecies of tropical lizards. You are positing the possibility of a sapient, civilized and technologically advanced species present on Earth alongside us without any of us noticing.

One of us is certainly making a false analogy. It's not me.

Says the one who attempted to use Bigfoot for his comparison.

You are hilarious.

Quote:
(10-09-2015 10:21 AM)Free Wrote:  That is not for us to answer, is it?

Or to think through at all, apparently.

You really don't seem to understand this whole "ad hoc hypotheses are bad" concept. Your posited "space nomad" idea solves precisely none of the problems associated with the horrific distances involved in interstellar travel, and just adds about a dozen of its own.

Okay, so what are those "dozen problems?"

Quote:
(10-09-2015 10:21 AM)Free Wrote:  Ummm ... maybe that's the point of all the UFO reports?

Circular, and not at all an actual answer to the point raised, which is in regard to actual observation of the other planets in the solar system. We aren't blind out there, you know.

Try again.

And this somehow excuses you from contradicting yourself? You are aware that there are many unexplained UFO reports from space itself including some yet-to-be debunked and unexplainable footage by Nasa?

This particular footage is very interesting, because it has been verified as real. It's from almost 25 years ago and the UFO in it takes a sharp 45 degree turn and accelerates away at high speed.

This is one of the damn few videos I actually respect. We don't know for certainty what it it is, but we can most certainly state that nothing we know of naturally or man-made can perform like that.

You can investigate this video forever, and never will you see anyone ever debunk it. They simply can't, because the original footage still exists.

Quote:
(10-09-2015 10:21 AM)Free Wrote:  Do you not understand how you fucking contradict yourself?

I have not contradicted myself. You simply fail to understand what is being said to you.

No, your contradicted yourself. You cannot claim that an eyewitness testimony of what we may see on or near another planet would constitute evidence while in the same breath make a claim that eyewitness testimony is inadequate.

Don't hammer more nails into your coffin on this issue because you couldn't be any more dead here.

Big Grin

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10-09-2015, 11:21 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(10-09-2015 04:26 AM)JonMJ33 Wrote:  The hows and whys are irrelevant. What is important is that there is evidence that shows this phenomenon is real.

There's evidence that people have seen things and don't know what they are.

There's no evidence that they are alien in origin.

(10-09-2015 04:26 AM)JonMJ33 Wrote:  You saw a satellite in mid day? Not sure if I have heard of that before?

It's not uncommon.
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10-09-2015, 11:25 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(10-09-2015 05:39 AM)JonMJ33 Wrote:  Attack the information directly, not the manner in which it was presented. Otherwise you are just beating around the bush. Oh that's right you probably did not watch the hours and hours of testimony and lectures given during the Citizen Hearing on Disclosure.

Given the charlatans and frauds which have populated this field for decades, the fact that they aren't under oath is pertinent.

(10-09-2015 05:39 AM)JonMJ33 Wrote:  Perhaps you should stop talking and actually watch what actually happened.

I'll let you know when I want your advice. Until that time, fuck off.
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10-09-2015, 11:27 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(10-09-2015 10:52 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-09-2015 10:00 AM)Free Wrote:  Oh, and one other question regarding whether or not multiple eyewitness testimony is inadequate.

Let me see a show of hands to the following question:

Question: Should we overturn all convictions of verbal sexual harassment because we somehow think the multiple eyewitness testimonies are inadequate?

After all, there is no "physical evidence" whatsoever, so don't you think that verbal sexual harassment should not be a criminal offence?

Tongue

Truth about the universe is not decided by legal logic nor courtroom procedures, but by the scientific method.

The processes and standards are different.

That's true, but we are not exactly talking about science here. We cannot conclusively say that what is being argued here has anything to do with science.

It's all about opinions and judgements of evidence, and how multiple eyewitness testimony provides a greater confidence in determining the truth value.

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