UFO Disclosure
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10-09-2015, 11:51 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
Hah. And the negative reputation on top of the utter failure to understand what "false comparison" actually means.

The claims are old and stale, but I must say that's it has been a while since I've witnessed a meltdown of this magnitude. And I've hardly gone beyond gentle ribbing at this point, either.

At least this thread has some entertainment value as a result.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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10-09-2015, 11:53 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
I totally understand wanting to believe.

But people have been claiming this for decades and all we have are eyewitness accounts and blurry film and photos.

It just doesn't stand up.
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10-09-2015, 11:55 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(10-09-2015 11:49 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  I do think Unbeliever has raised a good point.

Where are the 'Lots' of astronomers (Back yard or other wise) who scan the skies every night NOT seemingly coming forwards with any images of these supposed strange craft?

Why do these lights only manifest well within our gravity well and atmosphere?

Why are these sopposed craft NOT seen transiting between us and the Moon? Or any other celestial body? Even once, by accident?

Because they aren't there.

The only explanation that alien visitation proponents can come up with in response to the reality of there not being any sightings of these supposed visiting craft is that either the sightings are happening, but are covered up, or that the aliens possess some sort of magical stealth technology which renders them undetectable. Neither of these works, for obvious reasons.

I mean, really. Stealth in space is not an easy thing to do. There are limitations, no matter how technologically advanced you are. Engines must vent heat, there isn't any way to stop simple visual detection short of moving behind something else, and so forth.

The traditional response to this, "you don't know what capabilities alien technology might have", is just a hand-wave. It essentially reduces the idea of aliens to the equivalent of wizards. Magical thinking doesn't stop being magical thinking just because you say it's technology rather than spells.

And "we don't know, therefore space wizards" is rather silly.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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10-09-2015, 12:02 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
At work.

BIG thumbs up to Unbeliever's post. Yes, that astronomers aren't seeing these things approach.

Indeed, there's no real 'Stealth' in space.

Watching that thread melt down about that topic would also be amusing. Big Grin
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10-09-2015, 12:06 PM (This post was last modified: 10-09-2015 12:10 PM by Free.)
RE: UFO Disclosure
(10-09-2015 11:49 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  At work.

I do think Unbeliever has raised a good point.

Where are the 'Lots' of astronomers (Back yard or other wise) who scan the skies every night NOT seemingly coming forwards with any images of these supposed strange craft?

Why do these lights only manifest well within our gravity well and atmosphere?

Why are these sopposed craft NOT seen transiting between us and the Moon? Or any other celestial body? Even once, by accident?

Again, if you care to take up the hobby of investigating this issue, you will find all that evidence. My words alone will not convince you; only you can come to a proper evaluation of the issue by investigating it yourself.

Personally, despite what you see me write here, I am extremely sceptical about almost al videos, pictures, and testimonials submitted in the internet age.

I have studied the history of UFO reports which date back hundreds of years. I have examined yet to be debunked photos from as far back as 70+ years ago. I have personally witnessed UFOs close up with other witnesses present.

My experience and experiences are the very reason why I hold to my position of a very good possibility. I cannot give you this experience or experiences.

Only you can do that.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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10-09-2015, 12:09 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(10-09-2015 11:19 AM)Free Wrote:  You are aware that there are many unexplained UFO reports from space itself including some yet-to-be debunked and unexplainable footage by Nasa?

This particular footage is very interesting, because it has been verified as real. It's from almost 25 years ago and the UFO in it takes a sharp 45 degree turn and accelerates away at high speed.

Quote:The object that you see trending right to left (object 1) is likely frozen crap (figuratively or even literally) that came off the shuttle. The flash is definitely from the contact of the hypergolic fuel and oxidizer from some nearby thrusters. While the flash is initially visible, the bulk of the thrust comes in the moments after as the gaseous byproducts of the combustion expand. That expansion of gasses is what caused the change in direction of object 1 and made it accelerate. Object 2 (AKA the first streaks) which appears to shoot past object 1 could be more ice or the clumped up residue that collects in the thruster manifolds (unburned fuel that freezes).

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10-09-2015, 12:10 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
At work.

Sorry Free but 'Only you can seek the truth'?

Really?
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10-09-2015, 12:13 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(10-09-2015 12:06 PM)Free Wrote:  Again, if you care to take up the hobby of investigating this issue, you will find all that evidence.

Oh, look. A crushing three examples, precisely none of which actually provide any evidence of what they saw, one of which cites Wikipedia as its source (and leaves out the exceptionally relevant quote "Tombaugh observed these rectangles of light for about 3 seconds and his wife saw them for about 1 1⁄2 seconds. He never supported the interpretation as a spaceship that has often been attributed to him. He considered other possibilities, with a temperature inversion as the most likely cause."), one of which contains nothing but an artist's rendition of a claimed observation, and one of which is from the seventeenth century.

Incredible.

(10-09-2015 12:06 PM)Free Wrote:  Personally, despite what you see me write here, I am extremely sceptical about almost al videos, pictures, and testimonials submitted in the internet age.

Your behavior indicates otherwise.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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10-09-2015, 12:17 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(10-09-2015 12:09 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(10-09-2015 11:19 AM)Free Wrote:  You are aware that there are many unexplained UFO reports from space itself including some yet-to-be debunked and unexplainable footage by Nasa?

This particular footage is very interesting, because it has been verified as real. It's from almost 25 years ago and the UFO in it takes a sharp 45 degree turn and accelerates away at high speed.

Quote:The object that you see trending right to left (object 1) is likely frozen crap (figuratively or even literally) that came off the shuttle. The flash is definitely from the contact of the hypergolic fuel and oxidizer from some nearby thrusters. While the flash is initially visible, the bulk of the thrust comes in the moments after as the gaseous byproducts of the combustion expand. That expansion of gasses is what caused the change in direction of object 1 and made it accelerate. Object 2 (AKA the first streaks) which appears to shoot past object 1 could be more ice or the clumped up residue that collects in the thruster manifolds (unburned fuel that freezes).

Yep, a guy who posts under the nickname "Credulity Kills."

That is not official documentation, nor can we confirm his claims.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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10-09-2015, 12:17 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(10-09-2015 12:06 PM)Free Wrote:  
(10-09-2015 11:49 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  At work.

I do think Unbeliever has raised a good point.

Where are the 'Lots' of astronomers (Back yard or other wise) who scan the skies every night NOT seemingly coming forwards with any images of these supposed strange craft?

Why do these lights only manifest well within our gravity well and atmosphere?

Why are these sopposed craft NOT seen transiting between us and the Moon? Or any other celestial body? Even once, by accident?

Again, if you care to take up the hobby of investigating this issue, you will find all that evidence. My words alone will not convince you; only you can come to a proper evaluation of the issue by investigating it yourself.

Personally, despite what you see me write here, I am extremely sceptical about almost al videos, pictures, and testimonials submitted in the internet age.

I have studied the history of UFO reports which date back hundreds of years. I have examined yet to be debunked photos from as far back as 70+ years ago. I have personally witnessed UFOs close up with other witnesses present.

My experience and experiences are the very reason why I hold to my position of a very good possibility. I cannot give you this experience or experiences.

Only you can do that.

I'm assuming you are an atheist yes?

Christan use these same arguments.

"I'm a very skeptical christian but..."

"I've studied reports of miracles that are really old that haven't been debunked"

"I have personal experiences with god"

Would that be enough to convince you god is real?

Of course not. It doesn't change just because the subject matter changes.

You can't just say "I don't understand it so aliens" just like you can't god.
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