UFO Disclosure
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10-09-2015, 07:00 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(10-09-2015 06:50 PM)Free Wrote:  The following is a partial transcript and video from CNN which interviewed a Chicago O'Hare Airport aircraft mechanic named "Joe," who asked to stay anonymous to protect his job and to avoid ridicule:

That's wonderful.

It's still not evidence, either for his account being accurate or for the observed phenomenon to actually be a craft of any description, let alone one of alien origin.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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10-09-2015, 07:30 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(10-09-2015 05:13 PM)Free Wrote:  The following is an actual video from that day which has a conversation between a pilot flying at 35000 feet and the tower, near Chicago O'Hare Airport, near the time of the mass sighting. He reports a UFO, with video. This comes from the Operations center:




While interesting (and the X files music was amusing) this does not prove anything. Something as yet identified was in the air.

It all remains speculation until it can be identified. And speculation is all there is in this thread. It's kind of pointless.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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10-09-2015, 07:55 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(10-09-2015 05:04 PM)Free Wrote:  
(10-09-2015 04:59 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Directly over a passenger terminal?

Over C-17

Doesn't make sense that way either.
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10-09-2015, 08:03 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(10-09-2015 07:55 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(10-09-2015 05:04 PM)Free Wrote:  Over C-17

Doesn't make sense that way either.

According to the report, the tower controllers couldn't see it as it was directly above them. They got ground confirmation from the ground crew. Also, one of the airport managers was watching it from his office window, and went outside to where the ground crew were observing it and confirmed it with them.

Two pilots and a aircraft taxi mechanic also reported it above C 17.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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10-09-2015, 08:10 PM (This post was last modified: 10-09-2015 08:15 PM by Free.)
RE: UFO Disclosure
(10-09-2015 07:30 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(10-09-2015 05:13 PM)Free Wrote:  The following is an actual video from that day which has a conversation between a pilot flying at 35000 feet and the tower, near Chicago O'Hare Airport, near the time of the mass sighting. He reports a UFO, with video. This comes from the Operations center:




While interesting (and the X files music was amusing) this does not prove anything. Something as yet identified was in the air.

It all remains speculation until it can be identified. And speculation is all there is in this thread. It's kind of pointless.

Well speculation is, in fact, all we can do. No one here can say conclusively what it actually was, aside from demonstrating according to all the eyewitnesses that- according to them- it was definitely an aircraft they could not identity.

So when you have all the eyewitnesses positively identifying it as some kind of aircraft, where do you go from there? How can it not be reasonable to conclude that all the witnesses confirmed the object to be an aircraft?

Huh

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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10-09-2015, 08:24 PM (This post was last modified: 10-09-2015 08:28 PM by Unbeliever.)
RE: UFO Disclosure
(10-09-2015 08:10 PM)Free Wrote:  Well speculation is, in fact, all we can do.

Well, no. We can do many other things.

Posit "a wizard did it" apropos of nothing, for one.

(10-09-2015 08:10 PM)Free Wrote:  No one here can say conclusively what it actually was, aside from demonstrating according to all the eyewitnesses that- according to them- it was definitely an aircraft they could not identity.

Which is not conclusive in any way, shape, or form, for reasons outlined many times previously in this thread.

As a note to everyone else, since at this point it is fairly obvious that Free has placed me on his ignore list: asking questions about the details of any of the incidents he presents is pointless. It is, in fact, exactly what you should not do.

The details of the accounts he puts forth are irrelevant unless he can supply some actual evidence that they are accurate, and that what they saw was actually an aircraft. No details of any sort are relevant until these two things have been established.

You will also note that Free, despite all his claims to the contrary, is once again pushing what he considers actual evidence of alien visitation, not just stating that it is possible. He remains disingenuous and irrational.

These are not small issues, and they are not things that anyone participating in this thread should forget.

In many similar discussions, both on this site and elsewhere, I have debated posters similar to Free. Stevil in the garage dragon thread is one example, but perhaps the best is Jabba, who believes that the Shroud of Turin is authentic.

Jabba has run the debate around in circles for literally three years at this point. His methods are very simple and repetitive, but they almost always work: he states that something completely irrelevant, such as the fact that there is genuine blood on the Shroud or that there is reason to doubt the results of dating tests applied to it, is evidence that the Shroud is genuine. The debate on this singular point will go on for a few pages, and then Jabba will put forth another (previously-debunked, but a while back so that most of the posters participating in the present will not remember it) point like this.

What Jabba never does - what he cannot do - is present actual evidence that the Shroud of Turin is two thousand years old.

He can't, because there isn't any, and without that evidence, nothing else he says matters. Unless he can show that the Shroud is two thousand years old, there is no evidence that it could have been the burial shroud of Jesus. But he ignores this, and runs the debate around a loop in order to avoid having to admit he has no evidence. Instead, he goes on and on about how his "interim conclusions" that the blood is real, that the dating is wrong, that the artist would have to be a "genius" to create the imagery, and so forth, and then states that he has presented evidence that the Shroud is real.

This is exactly what Free is doing now. He is presenting point after irrelevant point in the hopes that no one will force him to confront the elephant in the room: that he has no evidence that the accounts he throws at us are accurate, or that the objects described in them are actually craft of any sort, let alone alien ones. His "interim conclusions" are that there are too many "expert eyewitnesses" all claiming the same thing (which is bunk), that alien life existing raises the possibility of alien life having visited Earth (bunk), that things like the STS-48 incident are "explainable" (bunk), that astronomers see evidence of alien craft all the time (come on, you know the words!), and so on. And he will keep raising each of these in turn so long as people allow him to do it, because it means that he doesn't have to deal with the main issue.

There is only one way to deal with it.

The posters on the ISF do it to Jabba occasionally, until a new poster comes in and indulges his idiocy and sets the thread off on a tangent again. I did it to Stevil in the garage dragon thread.

There is only one question that is relevant here, and until Free answers it, nothing else he says matters:

What is your evidence that the accounts you present are accurate and that the objects they describe are alien craft?

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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10-09-2015, 09:24 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(10-09-2015 08:10 PM)Free Wrote:  So when you have all the eyewitnesses positively identifying it as some kind of aircraft, where do you go from there? How can it not be reasonable to conclude that all the witnesses confirmed the object to be an aircraft?

Huh

Well this has in fact happened many thousands of times. For example, during WWII aircraft misidentification went on ALL the time. The poor old Hawker Typhoon went down to friendly fire because people thought it a Focke Wulf 190.

German anti aircraft fire towards the wars end constantly shot down Luftwaffe aircraft. Indeed, Operation Bodenplatte, a mass Luftwaffe ground attack mission saw more Luftwaffe lost to it own AAA than than allied fire.

Pilots misidentified aircraft they were in combat with. For example a Luftwaffe pilot may claim a spitfire when in fact he'd engaged a hurricane and visa versa. And this may have been at close range. It happened all the time.

So eyewitness reports are meaningless. I want actual evidence. So far we have nothing.

There "could" be a government conspiracy. But all these conspiracies seem to be American. How about China having a captured UFO? Nobody ever mentions China.

And why do fighter designs follow a distinct evolution, rather than a massive jump in aeronautical design? The only time something like that ever occurred was after WWII when Nazi science was captured and we ended up on the moon. And the Mig 15 and the North American F 86 Sabre look so similar? Or the evolution of the F 111 led to the Mig 23 and the F 14 Tomcat?

Yeah, I need real proof. Speculation is worthless.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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10-09-2015, 09:42 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(09-09-2015 12:10 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(08-09-2015 11:24 PM)JonMJ33 Wrote:  Fair enough.

And what of actual craft, such as the classic saucer type or triangle or cigar type craft?

If I may paraphrase Neil deGrassse Tyson; 'aliens that build flying saucers are stupid aliens.'

I got a good chuckle when he (Tyson) has said, "people who say they have seen a spacecraft, have forgotten what the 'u' stands for in 'ufo.'"
Big Grin
My brain replays that every time I encounter a ufo story.
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10-09-2015, 11:35 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(10-09-2015 08:10 PM)Free Wrote:  So when you have all the eyewitnesses positively identifying it as some kind of aircraft, where do you go from there? How can it not be reasonable to conclude that all the witnesses confirmed the object to be an aircraft?

Huh

You don't think it's possible for all the witnesses, even a large crowd, to be mistaken? Ever heard of the miracle of the Sun?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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11-09-2015, 12:14 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(10-09-2015 11:19 AM)Free Wrote:  This particular footage is very interesting, because it has been verified as real. It's from almost 25 years ago and the UFO in it takes a sharp 45 degree turn and accelerates away at high speed.

This is one of the damn few videos I actually respect. We don't know for certainty what it it is, but we can most certainly state that nothing we know of naturally or man-made can perform like that.

This almost snuck past me. A 45° turn is not "sharp" for many airplanes. As an Air Force firefighter stationed at Carswell AFB in Fort Worth, TX, right across the runway from the General Dynamics factory, about once every ten days I saw an F-16 just out of production stress-tested in an aerobatic show lasting about ten minutes, ranging from chandelles to vertical climbs and rapid turns that exceeded 90°.

Never mind the 5G Su-35 with its "Cobra" maneuver, a 3G fighter like the F-16, or the F-15, Tornado, and even the B-1B bomber can pull a very rapid 45° turn. I've seen 'em do it. And accelerating out of a turn is standard practice, because as anyone who knows a little about airplanes knows, when you turn you lose lift, and to compensate, you step on the gas. Once the wings are level again, you will naturally accelerate, because the engine power that was in the turn used to maintain altitude is now turned back again to motive force.
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