UFO Disclosure
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12-09-2015, 07:50 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
Ah the good ol "examine the evidence" schtick. I don't got time to read no holy books, I don't got time to read no reports. You want me to believe you, you learn to summarise. Oh and good use of "stupid question" for bonus points. Dodgy

You're exactly as every detractor of yours has pointed out. Dishonest.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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12-09-2015, 07:58 AM (This post was last modified: 12-09-2015 08:02 AM by Free.)
RE: UFO Disclosure
(12-09-2015 07:50 AM)morondog Wrote:  Ah the good ol "examine the evidence" schtick. I don't got time to read no holy books, I don't got time to read no reports. You want me to believe you, you learn to summarise. Oh and good use of "stupid question" for bonus points. Dodgy

You're exactly as every detractor of yours has pointed out. Dishonest.

What the fuck ever. You are asking stupid questions when links to the case have already been posted. If you want the answers, go read the case file.

I'm not about to do all your research for you. If you are honestly interested, then go find out for yourself how they identified it was an aircraft and it's description.

I guess it just doesn't occur to you how the reports of 12 people, viewing an object from different directions and distances, can be triangulated?

Facepalm

These questions of yours are not designed to find out what the truth is, because they are too fucking stupid for that. Your entire agenda is to debunk, not approach it with honest skepticism.

And that level of intellectual dishonesty is partly why Unbeliever is ignored.

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12-09-2015, 08:07 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
I don't wish to be disrespectful to anyone but to be honest this is getting kinda old. Its clear that neither party is going to convince the other (and no I'm not fence sitting here I believe in intelligent alien life in the universe but not that it visited earth) it seems to me its a contest of wills ego etc so there is no point in this other than the aforementioned I am also still slightly confused, free are you saying that alien life has possibly visited earth or that it actually has ?
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12-09-2015, 08:17 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(12-09-2015 08:07 AM)adey67 Wrote:  I don't wish to be disrespectful to anyone but to be honest this is getting kinda old. Its clear that neither party is going to convince the other (and no I'm not fence sitting here I believe in intelligent alien life in the universe but not that it visited earth) it seems to me its a contest of wills ego etc so there is no point in this other than the aforementioned I am also still slightly confused, free are you saying that alien life has possibly visited earth or that it actually has ?

It possibly has.

Most here agree alien visitation is possible, but some have it extremely remote, while others such as myself find it far more possible.

It's simply a matter of the level of possibility 1 - 100 %

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12-09-2015, 08:19 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
Thanks for clearing that up free much appreciated
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12-09-2015, 08:40 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(12-09-2015 08:19 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Thanks for clearing that up free much appreciated

I see way too much hypocrisy in this thread. Let me give you an example.

Many here, including myself, subscribe to the Big Bang theory as being plausible. Why?

We see circumstantial evidence to support the theory. We "eyewitness" objects in space moving away from what appears to be a central point and arrive at a conclusion that the event may have happened.

But where's the singularity? We don't have it. We have absolutely no concrete evidence at all for a Big Bang, but the circumstantial "eyewitness" evidence of things moving away from a central point, and a few other factors makes the theory plausible.

The Big Bang can be viewed as an extraordinary claim, just like intelligent life visiting earth, so why do we subscribe positively to that theory when there is no conclusive evidence for it?

These very same people who view the intelligent alien visitation situation with such extreme skepticism absolutely can be compared to a young earth creationist because of the following:

1. They have no education.
2. They haven't studied.
3. Their arguments are designed to debunk, not to find the truth.
4. They are demonstrably intellectually dishonest.
5. They are demonstrably logically fallacious, pointed out numerous times.
6. They deny evidence when the argument for the evidence is obvious.

Like a young earth creationist, they don't like the idea of an uncomfortable possible truth, so they throw stones at it like a fucking caveman hurling rocks at the moon.

And that's what I have learned more than anything about many of these people in this thread.

Some have earned my respect, but many others lost it completely.

Consider

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12-09-2015, 09:04 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(11-09-2015 04:38 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(11-09-2015 07:09 AM)Free Wrote:  I have not run from his arguments like a coward, as you so wrongfully and stupidly insist.

He was ignored for the following reasons:

[b]1. Constant False Comparison Fallacies: He continues to point to false comparisons, such as the last one in which I replied to him, wasting my time reviewing his bullshit reasoning.

You continue to falsely compare courtroom evidence with scientific evidence.

Please tell me why this absolutely needs to be an issue for scientists? Let me explain something to you.

If the object was real, and hovering in US airspace, and being covered up as has been proven, it wouldn't fucking matter if it was alien or from Timbuktu.

When you have 12 credible witness claiming that an unknown and unidentifiable aircraft was in US airspace, that is not an issue for scientists.

That is an issue for the courts, as it is an invasion of US airspace. It warrants a high level investigation on every level.

So if all these witnesses went to court to expose a cover up by the the several different agencies involved, their combined testimony, along with the voice recordings, transcripts et al would most certainly bring charges against somebody for attempting to cover up a crime against the american people.

You keep harping about science; science is not the only perspective here.

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12-09-2015, 09:06 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(12-09-2015 08:40 AM)Free Wrote:  The Big Bang can be viewed as an extraordinary claim, just like intelligent life visiting earth, so why do we subscribe positively to that theory when there is no conclusive evidence for it?

Because there is conclusive evidence for it. You said it yourself: we see many different things which line up perfectly with predictions made by the Big Bang theory.

You don't understand what "evidence" means.

(12-09-2015 08:40 AM)Free Wrote:  These very same people who view the intelligent alien visitation situation with such extreme skepticism absolutely can be compared to a young earth creationist because of the following:

1. They have no education.
2. They haven't studied.
3. Their arguments are designed to debunk, not to find the truth.
4. They are demonstrably intellectually dishonest.
5. They are demonstrably logically fallacious, pointed out numerous times.
6. They deny evidence when the argument for the evidence is obvious.

Ha.

Adey, you're quite right in pointing out that this isn't a discussion any more. It was never a discussion to begin with, really, since Free is not interested in discussing anything; he has his preconceived conclusions and refuses to examine them honestly, so from the very beginning this has just been a series of rather more intelligent people taking it in turn to smack down his idiotic notions of what "evidence" means and what makes a rational argument.

Literally everything on his list - except, perhaps, the first, but an education is unfortunately no substitute for actual intellectual honesty - is an accurate description of Free's actions in this thread, not his opponents'. Even the briefest of glances through the preceding pages will demonstrate this.

He hasn't studied anything. What he has done is go into matters with a preconceived idea of what he wants to be true, then cherry-picked examples and implemented a blatant double standard regarding what evidence he allows as support of his position versus what he allows as evidence against it.

He is not interested in finding the truth. He is interested in trying to rationalize baseless speculation and non sequitur reasoning to support his pet theory, as demonstrated by his recent demand that we "move on" from the obviously unimportant idea of establishing that any of this is actually true, and instead focus on talking about where his posited magical spaceships could have come from.

He is demonstrably dishonest both intellectually and otherwise. He bends over backwards to attempt to establish anecdotes as evidence in favor of alien visitation, while rejecting actual verifiable fact regarding both the fallibility of human perception and the way both courts and scientific examination handle anecdotes. Beyond that, he lies constantly about his position, retreating to "I'm just saying it's possible" whenever confronted with reality, despite the fact that he is plainly arguing for the reality of the situation, not merely its potential.

One could practically write a textbook on logical fallacies based entirely on Free's arguments here. He has no understanding of logic or rationality, and simply blunders about accusing others of fallacies when he plainly doesn't understand what they mean, or even grasp what the argument he's trying to declare fallacious actually says.

And he hand-waves away the mountains of evidence that eyewitness testimony, even that given by "experts" and en masse, is demonstrably unreliable and not acceptable as the basis for an argument like the one he is trying to make. Beyond that, he pays no attention to those who have shown that even those professionally trained in aviation frequently misidentify aircraft, and even goes so far as to try and submit actual courtroom law as proof that eyewitness testimony is enough evidence to get a conviction when the page he links to says the exact opposite.

So yes. This is no longer a discussion. It hasn't been for a long time. And that is, in fact, all down to Free's own behavior.

He's an idiot. He's a nutter. And he's a liar to boot.

You can't hold a conversation with someone like that.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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12-09-2015, 09:07 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
Ah yes, you can't answer so you retreat to the position that those who disagree are stupid. You supercilious bastard. Go fuck yourself.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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12-09-2015, 09:09 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(12-09-2015 09:07 AM)morondog Wrote:  Ah yes, you can't answer so you retreat to the position that those who disagree are stupid. You supercilious bastard. Go fuck yourself.

The answers are in the case file.

Therefore, like a young earth creationist, you should go study up on it before you open your fucking mouth and look like an uneducated disingenuous prick.

Drinking Beverage

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