UFO Disclosure
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12-09-2015, 10:56 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(12-09-2015 10:51 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(12-09-2015 09:19 AM)Free Wrote:  No, I refuse your questions because they reek of disingenuity. Therefore, go read the case file; study the subject, and get the answers you want if you want to convince me that you are actually sincere.

Drinking Beverage

Yeah, because asking how a human being using nothing more than their eyes can possibly decide that
a. an object is 35 ft in diameter, having never seen such an object before and with the object being in the sky, where there are no reference points
b. the object achieved *orbit* in 2 seconds, when the human eye typically can't see jumbo jets (much longer than 35 ft) at their cruising altitude, which is *significantly* below orbit,

"reeks" positively *reeks* or disingenuity, whereas advising the asker to go read some report "for themselves" and "study the subject", instead of y'know, posting an answer, is the absolute *epitomy* of sincerity.

You win, Free, aliens *did* visit Earth, based on your exceptional analysis. Also they were greeted by bigfoot and confirmed that Jesus is Lord.

And even more logical fallacies with attempt to ridicule.

You're doing good. Impressive.

And all this after I already told you how, by using the eyewitness testimonies, they could triangulate its relative position, size, approximate distance from the ground, and description.

Or did you simply choose to ignore that?

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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12-09-2015, 11:05 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(12-09-2015 08:40 AM)Free Wrote:  1. They have no education.
2. They haven't studied.
3. Their arguments are designed to debunk, not to find the truth.
4. They are demonstrably intellectually dishonest.
5. They are demonstrably logically fallacious, pointed out numerous times.
6. They deny evidence when the argument for the evidence is obvious.

I'm educated. I've read some about UFOs, not to your extent, but I'm not new to the topic. I've asked fair questions and sometimes go no answer at all, other times got bunk in reply. I'm intellectually honest; if you can give solid evidence, I'll lend your hypothesis credence.

As for fallacies, we all make them, yourself in this thread included. You've equivocated "aliens exist" with "aliens have visited", you made appeals to popularity, you've treated your "evidence" for UFOs differently that "evidence for other phenomena you reject although the evidence is of the same quality, and so on.

Your evidence is pretty uncompelling.

I think that resorting to this sort of attack is pretty shitty, because even guys like me who have been decent to you get painted with these insults. Thanks a lot. Just because I disagree with you I'm a biased, uneducated dolt. Got it.

(12-09-2015 08:40 AM)Free Wrote:  Some have earned my respect, but many others lost it completely.

Consider

I'm sure they're brokenhearted, perhaps even suicidal. Rolleyes
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12-09-2015, 11:19 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(12-09-2015 10:56 AM)Free Wrote:  And all this after I already told you how, by using the eyewitness testimonies, they could triangulate its relative position, size, approximate distance from the ground, and description.

Or did you simply choose to ignore that?

I didn't see your reply. OK that sounds to me like a reasonable method for size etc, *assuming* that the eyewitness testimony is reliable. How about "achieving orbit" now? 'Cos that still sounds dicey.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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12-09-2015, 11:19 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(12-09-2015 11:05 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(12-09-2015 08:40 AM)Free Wrote:  1. They have no education.
2. They haven't studied.
3. Their arguments are designed to debunk, not to find the truth.
4. They are demonstrably intellectually dishonest.
5. They are demonstrably logically fallacious, pointed out numerous times.
6. They deny evidence when the argument for the evidence is obvious.

I'm educated. I've read some about UFOs, not to your extent, but I'm not new to the topic. I've asked fair questions and sometimes go no answer at all, other times got bunk in reply. I'm intellectually honest; if you can give solid evidence, I'll lend your hypothesis credence.

As for fallacies, we all make them, yourself in this thread included. You've equivocated "aliens exist" with "aliens have visited", you made appeals to popularity, you've treated your "evidence" for UFOs differently that "evidence for other phenomena you reject although the evidence is of the same quality, and so on.

Your evidence is pretty uncompelling.

I think that resorting to this sort of attack is pretty shitty, because even guys like me who have been decent to you get painted with these insults. Thanks a lot. Just because I disagree with you I'm a biased, uneducated dolt. Got it.

(12-09-2015 08:40 AM)Free Wrote:  Some have earned my respect, but many others lost it completely.

Consider

I'm sure they're brokenhearted, perhaps even suicidal. Rolleyes

You assume much.

Quote:Some have earned my respect

You are among that group.

If I have not replied to some of your posts it is not because i have made any kind of choice to ignore them. It's a matter of time constraints irl, and with far too numerous other posts directed towards me on this topic.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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12-09-2015, 11:21 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(12-09-2015 11:05 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  I think that resorting to this sort of attack is pretty shitty, because even guys like me who have been decent to you get painted with these insults. Thanks a lot. Just because I disagree with you I'm a biased, uneducated dolt. Got it.

I think *everyone* who has replied to Free has been pretty decent, up until the point where he starts implying that they're stupid. So fuck him.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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12-09-2015, 11:35 AM (This post was last modified: 12-09-2015 11:39 AM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: UFO Disclosure
(12-09-2015 09:38 AM)Free Wrote:  
(12-09-2015 09:15 AM)unfogged Wrote:  For alien visitation we have nothing but anecdotal claims that can not be tested or verified.

Not in this case. We have transcripts and evidence of a cover-up as exposed by the Chicago Tribune. We actually have government documents attesting to this case. We have tower controllers telling incoming pilots to be careful to avoid the UFO. We have a video of a pilot 30,000 feet above eye-balling the UFO and complaining about it.

A perfect example of you making the illogical leap from "we don't know what they saw" to "it was aliens". Exactly where in the transcript is the evidence that this craft came from another planet? Who made that determination? What did they base it on?

Earlier in this thread you said that you thought a secret new airplane was the most likely scenario, yet here, you're saying that you have evidence it was from another planet.
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12-09-2015, 11:43 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(12-09-2015 11:19 AM)Free Wrote:  You assume much.

No, I was sticking directly to your words. The fact that you didn't make them nuanced enough so that broad conclusions wouldn't hit unintended targets is a function of your writing.
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12-09-2015, 11:45 AM (This post was last modified: 12-09-2015 12:40 PM by Free.)
RE: UFO Disclosure
(12-09-2015 11:21 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(12-09-2015 11:05 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  I think that resorting to this sort of attack is pretty shitty, because even guys like me who have been decent to you get painted with these insults. Thanks a lot. Just because I disagree with you I'm a biased, uneducated dolt. Got it.

I think *everyone* who has replied to Free has been pretty decent, up until the point where he starts implying that they're stupid. So fuck him.

Decent? Really?

LOL

Let me tell you what not to do in a discussion with me so that I might get the impression that you are decent.

1. You do not attempt to tell me that oral evidence given by expert eyewitnesses is not evidence. It is considered evidence in every civilized court system, and the more expert eyewitnesses used the higher the confidence that they are telling the truth will be. Anyone who makes such a claim is well deserving of the finger from every legal professional in north america and other civilized places in the world.

You lose respect immediately by denying this because it demonstrates either denialism or flat-out lying. Period.


2. You do not attempt to constantly use false comparisons with me, ever. Comparing a group of religionists at Fatima who were all predisposed for days to expect miracles and supernatural visions to a group of 12 credible witnesses who were professionals and who were not expecting anything to happen is a false comparison on so many levels you cannot count them.

Anyone who does this is instantly and rightfully categorized as exhibiting fallaciousness, and when pointed out if they remain in denial, are deserving to be either ignored, called out, or proclaimed as being intellectually dishonest. Period.


3. You do not insist that this issue is a matter only science can answer when science itself has no fucking answers to this case whatsoever. Not only that, this case demonstrates elements that have no place in science, but rather a courtroom since the available evidence certainly indicates a conspiracy to cover up information from the American people regarding an invasion of american airspace by an unknown, unidentified aircraft. Period.

4. You do not constantly misrepresent my views by taking quotes out of context so that you can present them as if it was something I actually said, when the fact of the matter is I didn't say it at all. This practice has been pointed out numerous times, exposed, and has left this conversation wanting in need of some genuine intellectual honesty of some of you posters.

Dude, it's not my fucking problem that some of you don't like the argument, but if you need to resort to the tactics I listed above, aside from the endless other logical fallacies, then you will deservingly be viewed as disingenuous, intellectually dishonest, logically fallacious, and ... a fucking retard.

And guess what? I don't give a shit if you like it or not.

Big Grin

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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12-09-2015, 11:55 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(12-09-2015 11:21 AM)morondog Wrote:  I think *everyone* who has replied to Free has been pretty decent, up until the point where he starts implying that they're stupid. So fuck him.

Quite.

I do not, as a rule, engage in petty insult wars, but as Free has demonstrated that he is more than happy to sink this low despite others' more restrained and polite behavior, I really don't care. I mean, "I'll let you remain as my bitch"? Really?

If he's going to make it that painfully obvious that he never progressed mentally beyond middle school and spend so much time and effort trying to deliberately piss other people off for pointing out blatant and obvious fallacies in his posts, then there's really no point in treating him as anything other than what he is: a child.

(12-09-2015 11:45 AM)Free Wrote:  Let me tell you what not to do in a discussion with me so that I might get the impression that you are decent.

1. You do not attempt to tell me that oral evidence given by expert eyewitnesses is not evidence.

So don't tell you facts, then.

Because literally every source anyone has actually come up with, including yourself, has contradicted your assertion that anecdotes are, in and of themselves, evidence.

(12-09-2015 11:45 AM)Free Wrote:  2. You do not attempt to constantly use false comparisons with me, ever.

Such as comparing the idea of a technologically advanced, non-human civilization existing alongside us on Earth without the public at large knowing about it with the idea of a technologically advanced, non-human civilization existing alongside us on Earth without the public at large knowing about it, you mean.

(12-09-2015 11:45 AM)Free Wrote:  3. You do not insist that this issue is a matter only science can answer when science itself has no fucking answers to this case whatsoever.

Then, by definition, neither do you.

(12-09-2015 11:45 AM)Free Wrote:  t...the available evidence certainly indicates a conspiracy to cover up information from the American people regarding an invasion of american airspace by an unknown, unidentified aircraft. Period.

Oh, so we're past asserting that UFOs are alien spacecraft and have gone into the next degree of balls-out insanity, then. Not only do these things exist, and not only are they definitively spacecraft, the government has been covering it up for years.

And "the available evidence certainly indicates" this.

You're an idiot.

(12-09-2015 11:45 AM)Free Wrote:  4. You do not constantly misrepresent my views by taking quotes out of context so that you can present them as if it was something I actually said, when the fact of the matter is I didn't say it at all. This practice has been pointed out numerous times, exposed, and has left this conversation wanting in need of some genuine intellectual honesty of some of you posters.

Uh, no. You threw a fit about me pointing out how incredibly stupid your posts are and jumped on the idea of fisking as something inherently dishonest, when, in reality, it's just a means of keeping thoughts organized, and not a single thing you said was taken out of context.

Then, when you tried to turn this around and do the same things to my posts, you did do this. You literally pulled a sentence out of a paragraph and said that it was to be disregarded due to me not supplying a reason for accepting it as true when the very next sentence supplied that reason.

(12-09-2015 11:45 AM)Free Wrote:  Dude, it's not my fucking problem that some of you don't like the argument, but if you needs to resort to the tactics I listed above, aside from the endless other logical fallacies, then you will deserving be viewed as disingenuous, intellectually dishonest, logically fallacious, and ... a fucking retard.

And guess what? I don't give a shit if you like it or not.

Big Grin

It's funny. I could almost have written this myself.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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12-09-2015, 12:04 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
Shit! This thread grew by 5 pages just in the day or two I didn't look at it. Bottom line:

Anything in the sky (including a bird) is a UFO if you cannot identify it. But there ain't no fucking space aliens on Earth, and there's no civilization at the center of the Earth flying around in flying ships that nobody but bat-shit-crazy idiots ever see. From time to time some government or aerospace company tests something that won't become general knowledge for a couple of years, so for a couple of years that's a UFO until its existence becomes public. There are weather balloons, and now drones are becoming more common.

But UFOs the way most people think of them (space aliens) do not exist.

I'm out of here. This thread was ridiculous from the first post, but now it has become tedious.

"El mar se mide por olas,
el cielo por alas,
nosotros por lágrimas."
-- Jaime Sabines
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