UFO Disclosure
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15-09-2015, 09:11 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(15-09-2015 09:08 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(15-09-2015 09:03 AM)Free Wrote:  If you have one scientist making the claim, other scientists will then make the same observations to deny or confirm what the first scientist postulated from his beliefs of what the anecdotal evidence indicates.

At which point belief and anecdotes are no longer necessary, because you have actual evidence.

Free, if you get this, why are you still trying to convince us that the verification is unnecessary?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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15-09-2015, 09:15 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(15-09-2015 09:11 AM)morondog Wrote:  Free, if you get this, why are you still trying to convince us that the verification is unnecessary?

Because, if he admits that it is, then he has to admit that he has no evidence for alien visitation. He wants to show that we have to take people at their word just because he finds an anecdote convincing, because, for some reason, him believing it makes it evidence.

It's completely nonsensical, but at least he's stopped pretending to have any basis in rationality. He even returned the negative reputation from earlier because I won't tell him that his idiocy is correct. I wonder if I'm back on ignore as well.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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15-09-2015, 09:17 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(15-09-2015 09:15 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  He even returned the negative reputation from earlier because I won't tell him that his idiocy is correct. I wonder if I'm back on ignore as well.

Sadcryface He left mine Tongue Laughat

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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15-09-2015, 09:18 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(15-09-2015 09:08 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(15-09-2015 09:03 AM)Free Wrote:  No matter how you spin it, unless the anecdotal evidence generates any degree of belief in the truth of a claim, no one will act upon it.

Belief is not evidence. Belief is not exclusively generated by evidence.

How much belief an anecdote generates is irrelevant. It is still not evidence.

(15-09-2015 09:03 AM)Free Wrote:  If you have one scientist making the claim, other scientists will then make the same observations to deny or confirm what the first scientist postulated from his beliefs of what the anecdotal evidence indicates.

At which point belief and anecdotes are no longer necessary, because you have actual evidence.

My point here, which you so desperately keep trying to obfuscate, is that without anecdotal evidence, you wouldn't be capable of generating any belief in any scientific hypothesis or theory ... ever.

Therefore, anecdotal evidence is considered evidence to generate belief in the truth of a claim, and that belief increases exponentially when eyewitnesses- including numerous scientists who conclude via the same observations- all agree on what they all observed.

If one scientist only suggested the possibility of the Big Bang based upon what he alone observed, no one would know anything about it. However, when more scientists observe the same thing, the belief in the truth of the claim exponentially increases, and ever since then more evidence has been gathered in an attempt to confirm the belief that a singularity at one time actually existed.

So here we are, all accepting the plausibility of the Big Bang based initially upon anecdotal evidence, and now upon other observations ... and yet we do not have any direct evidence of the singularity.

Isn't that interesting?

Drinking Beverage

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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15-09-2015, 09:20 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(15-09-2015 09:17 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(15-09-2015 09:15 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  He even returned the negative reputation from earlier because I won't tell him that his idiocy is correct. I wonder if I'm back on ignore as well.

Sadcryface He left mine Tongue Laughat

[Image: giphy.gif]

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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15-09-2015, 09:22 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(15-09-2015 09:17 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(15-09-2015 09:15 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  He even returned the negative reputation from earlier because I won't tell him that his idiocy is correct. I wonder if I'm back on ignore as well.

Sadcryface He left mine Tongue Laughat

A negative rep from Free is like a badge of honor. I'd be more worried if he gave me a positive one.
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15-09-2015, 09:26 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(15-09-2015 09:22 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(15-09-2015 09:17 AM)morondog Wrote:  Sadcryface He left mine Tongue Laughat

A negative rep from Free is like a badge of honor. I'd be more worried if he gave me a positive one.

Curses! Don't say that! He'll figure it out!!!11!

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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15-09-2015, 09:30 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(15-09-2015 09:18 AM)Free Wrote:  My point here, which you so desperately keep trying to obfuscate, is that without anecdotal evidence, you wouldn't be capable of generating any belief in any scientific hypothesis or theory ... ever.

No, I understand the point. Rather better than you do, in fact. I even addressed it directly in a previous post.

"Hey, we should go get some evidence to find out what I saw, or if I even really saw anything" is not equivalent to "we have evidence of what that was".

It never will be, no matter how hard you try to equivocate.

(15-09-2015 09:18 AM)Free Wrote:  Therefore, anecdotal evidence is considered evidence to generate belief in the truth of a claim

"Evidence" does not mean "a thing that generates belief".

The Bible generates belief in the truth of Christianity. The Bible is not evidence of the truth of Christianity.

(15-09-2015 09:18 AM)Free Wrote:  and that belief increases exponentially when eyewitnesses- including numerous scientists who conclude via the same observations- all agree on what they all observed.

If one scientist only suggested the possibility of the Big Bang based upon what he alone observed, no one would know anything about it. However, when more scientists observe the same thing, the belief in the truth of the claim exponentially increases

This is just the appeal to popularity fallacy combined with a straw man argument.

No one accepts the Big Bang theory based on the number of scientists who say "oh yeah guys it's totally right". We accept the Big Bang theory based on the evidence that those scientists are capable of producing.

And no, it didn't originate that way, either. You don't understand a thing about the scientific process or the way that theories come to be. The Big Bang theory came about as a way of explaining the evidence that we already had, not just some guy looking up at the sky and saying "I bet all this exploded".

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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15-09-2015, 09:34 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
As far as I am concerned, multiple eyewitness testimonies that all support the same claim are rightfully considered as "oral evidence" to generate and exponentially increase belief in the claim.

oral evidence:

noun

corroboration, document, doccmentary evidence, documentation, species of proof, validation, verbal confirmation, verbal explanaaion of facts admitted at trial, verbal proof, verbal proof of facts, verbal proof presented at trial, verbal testimony, verbal testimony which is part of the record, verification.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionar...l+evidence

It is evidence according to the legal definition

And ... it is also evidence to support scientific theories.

What we observe is evidence ... of what is.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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15-09-2015, 09:35 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(15-09-2015 09:18 AM)Free Wrote:  So here we are, all accepting the plausibility of the Big Bang based initially upon anecdotal evidence, and now upon other observations ... and yet we do not have any direct evidence of the singularity.

Isn't that interesting?

Drinking Beverage

No. Talking off the top of my head here, but IIRC Hubble's original observations lent credence to the theory but it was a long way from being accepted. Initially all that was observed was the red shift of galaxies. There was no need to force an interpretation on it. It later became clear that Big Bang was a good stab at a theory which fitted the evidence *and* explained a lot of other stuff as well. It's not based off one set of observations. The theory also *predicted* some stuff, like the temperature of the cosmic microwave background radiation. Where those predictions don't match with experiment is where the excitement is because that's where the theory may have to be modified. There are multiple versions of the Big Bang theory anyway, with differing models (such as inflation) for how the universe expands. It's not one monolithic faith based belief which cannot be modified and rests on shaky anecdotes for it's basis in reality.

You haven't even got a credible *anecdote* for your alien hypothesis for crying out loud. The anecdote you yourself supplied has been shredded - credibility of witnesses, unverifiable reports, the whole 9 yards.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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