UFO Disclosure
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15-09-2015, 11:08 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(15-09-2015 08:11 PM)Free Wrote:  
(15-09-2015 08:09 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Do you care that your sources contradict each other?

Do you care that your sources contradict each other, even when taken singly?

Point them out so we can discuss them.

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I've been doing that for DAYS, you have been quoting them (but not addressing them oh no) for DAYS, and now you're gonna pretend you don't know what they are?

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15-09-2015, 11:16 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(15-09-2015 10:56 PM)JonMJ33 Wrote:  
(15-09-2015 07:44 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Your personal incredulity is not an argument.
So you honestly believe it was Venus?
If people really believe that was Venus after reading that account of the Belgium Wave, then HOLY SHIT we are lost as a people!! Why am I even talking to someone who cant tell the difference between Venus and a description of something that is OBVIOUSLY NOT Venus!!!

'Obviously not Venus' (according to you), still doesn't equate to 'obviously that's an extraterrestrial aliens spacecraft' you incredulous fuck. Facepalm

How about you don't jump to conclusions? How about you stop presupposing?

Why are you not satisfied with the far more intellectually honest answer of 'I don't know'?

Why do you so pathologically fear not knowing so much that you feel compelled to cling onto your preferred conclusion, sans evidence?


(15-09-2015 10:56 PM)JonMJ33 Wrote:  
(15-09-2015 07:44 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  You still have nothing better than "it was not conclusively identified". Leaping from that to "it was aliens" is still very, very silly.
That's why its called the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis, and more investigation is needed!!!! Is it really that hard to understand???

It's a shitty hypothesis, one born of confirmation bias. Because unless you have evidence that would make 'alien visitation' far more probable than 'flawed human perception', you're still so far out in left field as to be utterly laughable.

There is a huge gulf between what is possible, and what is probable; and you desperately need to learn to distinguish between the two.


(15-09-2015 10:56 PM)JonMJ33 Wrote:  
(15-09-2015 07:44 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  The investigation has been done. The result is, always and invariably, nothing.
I don't remember any governments jumping in and doing any exhaustive investigations?


Project Sign, Project Grudge, and Project Blue Book.

Spoiler Warning: The alien debris was balsa wood and aluminum foil. Rolleyes

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15-09-2015, 11:18 PM (This post was last modified: 15-09-2015 11:43 PM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: UFO Disclosure
(15-09-2015 08:24 PM)Free Wrote:  I know when I am being trolled
Clearly not.

(15-09-2015 08:24 PM)Free Wrote:  and I hit back as fucking hard as hell.
My kitten bites harder than you. She also resorts to calling people liers so she doesn't have to actually address their criticisms and refutations far less. She is also a cat and some how a saner human being then you.

(15-09-2015 08:24 PM)Free Wrote:  This forum is a cake-walk compared to the early nineties.
You have consistently failed to make your case that "12 witnesses all report seeing an aircraft" to a single person involved in this debate. You have success rate on that claim of 0%. What the fuck do you consider hard times to be if that's your cake walk?

(15-09-2015 08:24 PM)Free Wrote:  You gotta dish out as much as you can take, or else you are quite done.
Try dishing out some evidence instead. Some verified evidence.

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15-09-2015, 11:23 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(15-09-2015 11:18 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(15-09-2015 08:24 PM)Free Wrote:  You gotta dish out as much as you can take, or else you are quite done.
Try dishing out some evidence instead. Some verified evidence.

But don't you understand, Whiskey?

12 [not really] "qualified" [whatever that's supposed to mean] eyewitness [disregarding the myriad flaws with post-hoc human memory] agree [not really] on seeing something unexplained [notwithstanding the evidence his claim mandates but fails to account for], therefore he's right, and anyone who denies it is, and I quote, "fucking retarded".

Apparently repeating this assertion in the face of uniform skepticism constitutes "winning". By that standard godexists has "won" every one of his interactions here.

How that overwhelming dataset failed to convince us all, I wouldn't presume to begin speculating on.

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15-09-2015, 11:25 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(15-09-2015 08:45 PM)Free Wrote:  .... for if they don't provide a convincing argument, then I am not wrong.

Um....No. The fact that someone is unable to convince you your wrong does not mean that your not wrong, just that they failed to convince you that you are wrong. Your refusal to realize your wrong does not make you not wrong. That's just....that's just silly.

If you are don't find the fact your "evidence" is unverified, anonymous, and contradictory to what you claim it is unconvincing then you are unreasonable and irrational and have set the bar of belief on the fuckin' ground it so low.

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15-09-2015, 11:28 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(15-09-2015 09:05 PM)Free Wrote:  I think this was a double post, but I can't be sure. Can you click the spoiler and find out?

Thanks.

Do you have a cunt?

And you accuse other people of trolling?

Really?

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15-09-2015, 11:33 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(15-09-2015 11:28 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(15-09-2015 09:05 PM)Free Wrote:  I think this was a double post, but I can't be sure. Can you click the spoiler and find out?

Thanks.

Do you have a cunt?

And you accuse other people of trolling?

Really?


Also, why is having a cunt (i.e. a vagina) being used in the pejorative?

So not only is Free an incredulous fuckatrd, he's a misogynist asshole as well. Color me not surprised. Drinking Beverage

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15-09-2015, 11:41 PM (This post was last modified: 15-09-2015 11:45 PM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: UFO Disclosure
(15-09-2015 10:56 PM)JonMJ33 Wrote:  So you honestly believe it was Venus?
I can demonstrate Venus exists. Can you demonstrate Aliens exist? Can you demonstrate that they are visiting us? Whats that? NO? Ok then.
Occom's razor just cut the throat of your pet crazy.

I'm still waiting for that proof from a while back I asked for. Did'ja fuckin' mail it or somethin'?

(15-09-2015 10:56 PM)JonMJ33 Wrote:  That's why its called the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis, and more investigation is needed!!!! Is it really that hard to understand???
And I posit The Fairies Dun' It Hypothesis, which has just as much actual evidence. Get back to me when you have got some fucking verifiable evidence that can prove which one of us is right.


(15-09-2015 10:56 PM)JonMJ33 Wrote:  I don't remember any governments jumping in and doing any exhaustive investigations?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_in...overnments

Here is a list of 16 government investigations into UFO's from multiple countries one of which lasted nearly 2 decades and collected over 12 000 UFO reports.
It took me less then 30 seconds to find on google.Drinking Beverage

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16-09-2015, 09:00 AM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(15-09-2015 09:06 PM)Free Wrote:  Of course it is subjective, but that is the same way for most people. Each of us begins from a point of belief in the truth of our held positions, and then test them against others. For some of us, our life experiences- particularly those grounded in real physical events- can contribute some rather unusual beliefs such as those I ascribe to.

And we can then examine those beliefs rationally and determine that they are very, very silly indeed.

Six-year-old children do better than you on this front, Free. At least they learn that the boogeyman isn't real, no matter how many noises they heard from the closet.

(15-09-2015 09:25 PM)Free Wrote:  
(15-09-2015 08:57 PM)cjlr Wrote:  And when that corroboration is wishful thinking, unfalsifiable special pleading?

That opinion is subjective.

No. It isn't.

The rules of logic apply no matter who you are.

(15-09-2015 09:25 PM)Free Wrote:  Do we always need to examine each other's personal reality from a position of whether or not it unfalsifiable?

If we want to know whether or not they are at all rational, yes.

(15-09-2015 09:25 PM)Free Wrote:  Again, it's a difference in our personal realities and life experiences. It really doesn't matter what the corpus asserts to anybody, for if beliefs are entrenched from a confirmed shared experience grounded in a confirmed physical event ... there's not a god damn thing anybody can do about it.

"Feels over reals" is not an argument.

(15-09-2015 10:56 PM)JonMJ33 Wrote:  So you honestly believe it was Venus?

I don't know. I honestly don't care. Whether or not it was Venus, there is no evidence of alien visitation.

None.

You could posit wizards with equal validity.

(15-09-2015 10:56 PM)JonMJ33 Wrote:  That's why its called the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis, and more investigation is needed!!!! Is it really that hard to understand???

Investigation has been done.

The result is, always and invariably, a complete and utter lack of aliens.

(15-09-2015 11:25 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  That's just....that's just silly.

That, sir, is my line.

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16-09-2015, 09:57 AM (This post was last modified: 16-09-2015 10:03 AM by Free.)
RE: UFO Disclosure
(15-09-2015 09:37 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(15-09-2015 09:25 PM)Free Wrote:  That opinion is subjective. I post reasonable analogies to explain a position of belief which is only subjective according to those who cannot relate to it. Yes, it is unfalsifiable for a certainty, but so is anybodies personal reality.

You post godawful presuppositional analogies. There's a difference.

The problem is that when you say such things, without clearly demonstrating why they are so "god awful" to such an extent that you actually prove it, is there some reason why I should accept your assessment as being in anyway accurate?

Yet, we have many here- including yourself- who attempted to post clearly false comparisons of the O'Hare incident with incidents of a gathering of religionists who were all predisposed to beliefs and expecting to see some promised vision, and you think that is actually a fair comparison?

Let me demonstrate how they are not similar at all:

1. Comparing people with predisposed beliefs with people who do not have any predisposed beliefs is not a similarity. (Note: Confirmation Bias)
2. Comparing people who expected to see something unusual with people who do not expect to see something unusual is not a similarity. (Note: Fallacy of Assumption)
3. Comparing a very large group of people- thousands in fact- to a very small group of people is not a similarity. (Note: Herd Mentality)
4. Comparing an apparition that qualifies as "supernatural" to what has been claimed as an aircraft and not demonstrated as supernatural is not a similarity. (Note: Direct False Comparison)


So before this conversation can continue on with any degree of credulity, I would like an explanation from your perspective on how you believe there are anywhere near enough similarities between the comparisons of religionists such as those at Fatima and the O'Hare UFO incident.

From my perspective, all I see in these "comparisons" that can even approach any semblance of credulity is the fact that both groups of people "seen something."

So, with that being the only possible comparison, and with all the other problems I listed that denote non comparison, I would like to see you, or anyone here, attempt to demonstrate how the comparison is true.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? I am an atheist because it is the natural state of being we are all born into.
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