UFO Disclosure
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16-09-2015, 12:42 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(16-09-2015 12:18 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(16-09-2015 11:57 AM)Free Wrote:  It is an argument when it has been demonstrated that the arguments against my position are false.

Save that you have failed to demonstrate this.

But we've been over all of this before. At this point, the discussion is functionally over. Your arguments have been shown to be absolutely worthless time and again, and this is just you trying to come up with anything you possibly can so that you don't have to admit that you were wrong.

As far as actual discussion goes, we're done here. You have made it perfectly obvious that you are out of ammunition. All that's left is the peanut gallery.

Since you people are using a comparison with the implication that it is a true and fair comparison, then that is a positive claim.

Therefore, when I ask you to prove that your comparison is fair and true, you are obligated to demonstrate it as such.

If you fail to demonstrate that your comparison is fair and true, then it can be dismissed wholesale as false.

And that's how the logical world goes round and round, isn't it?

Hence, prove the claim.

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16-09-2015, 12:43 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(16-09-2015 12:22 PM)Free Wrote:  I have tried to be. I get hostile when I am being lied to. I don't mind a good argument at all, but when people need to resort to logically fallacious comparisons- and then deny they are fallacious when they so obviously are- then i feel I am being lied to and ridiculed with their lies.

For "being lied to" read "being disagreed with". For "logically falacious comparisons" read "shit that's logical and I can't argue with so I'll just pretend it's a fallacy, link you to some dipshit's page on the fallacy and handwave it away". For ridicule, you brought it on yourself.

I can't believe you're still able to post this kind of bullshit with a straight face.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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16-09-2015, 12:43 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(16-09-2015 12:42 PM)Free Wrote:  you people

A poster who is no longer involved in the discussion and brought it up more than seventy pages ago.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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16-09-2015, 12:46 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(16-09-2015 12:43 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(16-09-2015 12:42 PM)Free Wrote:  you people

A poster who is no longer involved in the discussion and brought it up more than seventy pages ago.

And yet supported and reiterated by "you people" many times since then.

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16-09-2015, 12:52 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(16-09-2015 12:22 PM)Free Wrote:  For example, I speculate that intelligent life can evolve on other planets insomuch as to be superior to the human race and capable of interstellar travel, while pointing as evidence to our own evolutionary process which denotes life forms right here on earth that have various levels of intelligence.

I will draw comparisons between how humans existed just a couple of thousand years ago, and how we evolved intellectually and technically to the state we exist in today.

Yet, all I see from this bunch are claims of "unfalsifiable" et al, when the fact of the matter is I am merely positing possibilities built on the foundation of evidence from our own human history.

Because that isn't the claim actually being discussed. That is the motte of your motte-and-bailey combination platter.

This discussion has never been about whether or not alien life exists. It has always been about whether or not alien life has visited Earth.

They are not equivalent, no matter how much you would like them to be.

(16-09-2015 12:22 PM)Free Wrote:  It doesn't matter how much circumstantial evidence or anecdotal evidence is available, for without that little green man I am somehow "fallacious" in my arguments.

There is no circumstantial evidence available to support your alien visitation delusions, and "anecdotal evidence", no matter how many times you repeat it, is a contradiction in terms.

Again, the absolute best that you have is "we don't know", not "it was aliens".

(16-09-2015 12:22 PM)Free Wrote:  And we see this from this group of supposedly scientifically "endowed" individuals who almost all believe that a singularity once existed to create a Big Bang, yet all they have is circumstantial and anecdotal evidence to support their belief in their own "little green man."

As you said, we do have evidence. You... don't.

That makes this a - shock of all shocks! - false comparison.

And precisely none of this is relevant. There is even a name for the precise type of idiocy that you are employing here, and yes, it is another fallacy: tu quoque.

Precisely nothing you have said, even assuming it is true, changes the fact that your "arguments" for alien visitation are completely without merit of any sort. Even you have given up on them at this point. All you have left is allegations of stupidity and hypocrisy, which you have completely failed to substantiate and which serve no other purpose but to make you look like even more of a fool and a child than you already do.

As I said, so far as the actual discussion is concerned, this is over. All that's left is to watch the entertainment as you try to delude yourself further.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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16-09-2015, 01:19 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(16-09-2015 12:52 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(16-09-2015 12:22 PM)Free Wrote:  For example, I speculate that intelligent life can evolve on other planets insomuch as to be superior to the human race and capable of interstellar travel, while pointing as evidence to our own evolutionary process which denotes life forms right here on earth that have various levels of intelligence.

I will draw comparisons between how humans existed just a couple of thousand years ago, and how we evolved intellectually and technically to the state we exist in today.

Yet, all I see from this bunch are claims of "unfalsifiable" et al, when the fact of the matter is I am merely positing possibilities built on the foundation of evidence from our own human history.

Because that isn't the claim actually being discussed. That is the motte of your motte-and-bailey combination platter.

This discussion has never been about whether or not alien life exists. It has always been about whether or not alien life has visited Earth.

They are not equivalent, no matter how much you would like them to be.

What part of my post above where it says "intelligent life can evolve on other planets insomuch as to be superior to the human race and capable of interstellar travel" did you fail to read?

My point was to demonstrate how intelligent life elsewhere could technologically evolve to the point of travelling to earth, therefore the possibility that they may have done this could be the reason why we have the O'Hare UFO incident.

It is not an unreasonable assumption when reason itself has been used, with the "reasoning" demonstrated via our our own human evolutionary process, as well as other evolutionary processes of other non human life-forms right here on earth.

We do not need to prove that alien life exists in the universe, but only to demonstrate how it is reasonably possible.

Quote:
(16-09-2015 12:22 PM)Free Wrote:  It doesn't matter how much circumstantial evidence or anecdotal evidence is available, for without that little green man I am somehow "fallacious" in my arguments.

There is no circumstantial evidence available to support your alien visitation delusions, and "anecdotal evidence", no matter how many times you repeat it, is a contradiction in terms.

You are hypocritical, because we can say the exact same thing for the Big Bang. We can make the claim that the evidence you interpret may be completely wrong, and that it is not circumstantial evidence whatsoever to indicate a Big Bang.

And what will you do now? You will be forced into an apologetics position to defend what you deem to be the evidence to support the Big Bang, but at the end of the day all you will have is what you claim to be circumstantial evidence and anecdotes to support your "belief" in your own "little green man."

And that's the reality here, like it or lump it.

Quote:Again, the absolute best that you have is "we don't know", not "it was aliens".

And that is why I regard you as not being honest. My position is better categorized as "I don't know, but aliens are possible."

And you wonder why I think of you as a liar?

Quote:
(16-09-2015 12:22 PM)Free Wrote:  And we see this from this group of supposedly scientifically "endowed" individuals who almost all believe that a singularity once existed to create a Big Bang, yet all they have is circumstantial and anecdotal evidence to support their belief in their own "little green man."

As you said, we do have evidence. You... don't.

No, what you have cannot be conclusively demonstrated as evidence to support a Big Bang. It is completely subjective, just like old pictures of UFOs.

Where you say, "That picture of a UFO can be anything; a hoax, etc," I can equally say, "Claims that objects moving away from a central point in the universe may only appear to be doing that, and may not actually be doing that at all."

Both positions (hoax & objects moving away) are completely subjective and both positions on UFOs and the Big Bang are both positions of belief, since neither can be conclusively proven, and since neither can prove what the circumstantial evidence actually demonstrates.

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16-09-2015, 01:22 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
Going full on post-modernist now Rolleyes

"But how can we *really* know anything???? Riddle me that?"

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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16-09-2015, 01:24 PM (This post was last modified: 16-09-2015 01:37 PM by Free.)
RE: UFO Disclosure
(16-09-2015 01:22 PM)morondog Wrote:  Going full on post-modernist now Rolleyes

"But how can we *really* know anything???? Riddle me that?"

The reality is, you don't know. Anyone who claims that the Big bang is a fact, needs to prove it.

Oh but ... if you can't prove it, is it okay to "believe" it to be true based upon the "interpretation" of the "supposed evidence?"

What do you suppose is the reason they call it the Big Bang THEORY?

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16-09-2015, 01:37 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
If all I have is anecdotal evidence of a claim (e.g. ghosts) am I justified in accepting the claim, Free?

Suppose I had the following:
1. A Police report annotated by the American ghost society with timestamps detailing interviews of 12 unidentified experts-on-things-that-go-bump-in-the-night who all agree that they saw a white humanoid glowing thing doing things "that no human could possibly do". And for good measure, it then blasted off into orbit making no sound.
2. Evidence of a government cover-up.

Would you accept this as evidence of ghosts? If no, why? It's literally a direct facsimile of your argument regarding this alleged UFO, merely with ghosts substituted. I've even given you the benefit of all the witnesses agreeing and there actually being a cover-up.

If yes... well I'm really hoping you won't say that, 'cos IMO all that's left in that case is to diagnose you as irreparably barmy.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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16-09-2015, 01:43 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(16-09-2015 01:24 PM)Free Wrote:  The reality is, you don't know. Anyone who claims that the Big bang is a fact, needs to prove it.

Oh but ... if you can't prove it, is it okay to "believe" it to be true based upon the "interpretation" of the "supposed evidence?"

What do you suppose is the reason they call it the Big Bang THEORY?

Drinking Beverage

Are you really this dumb? It's called a theory because it can be modified if experimental evidence that contradicts it comes to light. It's *our best guess* and the way we tell it's *good* is because it makes specific predictions which we then test with experiment.

Fact is short-hand for "proven beyond reasonable doubt". Nothing in the external world is "proven" as in mathematically proven, because there's just too much that we don't know.

Your alien "evidence" is *solely* anecdotal. There is nothing else to back it up. If there was, you'd be *actually* winning the argument instead of "winning".

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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