UFO Disclosure
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16-09-2015, 03:02 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(16-09-2015 02:39 PM)Free Wrote:  It is only rational when I demonstrate how they are both beliefs, which is all my intention here was.

Beliefs only, nothing more.

Belief in Big Bang is not *only* belief, nothing more. It is belief based on evidence. I agree that they are both beliefs, but that's hardly saying much.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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16-09-2015, 03:06 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(16-09-2015 01:19 PM)Free Wrote:  What part of my post above where it says "intelligent life can evolve on other planets insomuch as to be superior to the human race and capable of interstellar travel" did you fail to read?

I read it. It doesn't change a damn thing.

"Aliens could exist and be capable of interstellar travel" does not equate to "aliens have visited Earth".

(16-09-2015 01:19 PM)Free Wrote:  You are hypocritical, because we can say the exact same thing for the Big Bang.

No, you can't. There is circumstantial evidence to support the Big Bang theory.

And this is still tu quoque.

(16-09-2015 01:19 PM)Free Wrote:  My position is better categorized as "I don't know, but aliens are possible."

No, it isn't. That is the motte that you retreat to when the evidence that you claim to have of aliens actually having visited Earth is refuted.

(16-09-2015 01:19 PM)Free Wrote:  And you wonder why I think of you as a liar?

Because you are rather an idiot.

And this has become a farce rather than a discussion. I could literally have just copied and pasted my previous post in response to this and it would have been perfectly valid. You are pathetically transparent in your failure.

And I am done with you.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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16-09-2015, 03:35 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(16-09-2015 02:47 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(16-09-2015 02:39 PM)Free Wrote:  Agreed! I have no argument against this. What people here don't seem to realize is that Ufology has come a long way since the 50s and attempts to utilize the scientific method to determine the possibilities that I speak about.
So where are the peer-reviewed papers published in major journals? If you got your hands on some actual evidence then it's effect would be electric. Journals would fall over themselves to be the first to publish it.

It's all been right in front of you since i posted the links.

NARCAP is full of scientists.

But Also:

Jacques F. Valle - Are UFO Events related to Sidereal Time?

Wiki Bio

Stanton T Friedman: Numerous Articles

Wiki Bio

Maximum Teodorani - Numerous Publications

Wiki Bio

And literally dozens more.

Steven hawking has two articles here and here.

Seriously, the list is endlessly full of high quality people discussing this and writing articles about it.

Quote:
Quote:It's not anywhere near as bizarre as some of you think it is.
... Well, so far it seems pretty darned bizarre. If you allege that you use the scientific method, what's with this bending over backwards to accept evidence uncritically? Why is it de rigeur to point out that the eyewitness testimony you've got has multiple problems to the point that it's not credible?

To the average person, it is absolutely crazy. I get that. But to those of us who have experienced it, and researched it, the more you learn about it the more the stigma of craziness evaporates, and quickly.

According to some scientists who are open about the subject, most other scientists do believe in it, but will not openly admit it because of the stigma of ridicule.

And that's a shame, but the bad attitude towards the subject is rapidly changing.

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16-09-2015, 03:38 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(16-09-2015 03:02 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(16-09-2015 02:39 PM)Free Wrote:  It is only rational when I demonstrate how they are both beliefs, which is all my intention here was.

Beliefs only, nothing more.

Belief in Big Bang is not *only* belief, nothing more. It is belief based on evidence. I agree that they are both beliefs, but that's hardly saying much.

As long as we can agree that both are indeed beliefs, we are good. I totally "get" the difference in comparisons however in regards to the "levels" of belief, and fully understand how the Big Bang's level of belief denotes a much higher probability of an approximation of the truth based upon the evidence. No argument there.

But try to understand, the more the subject of Ufology is researched, the higher the belief ratio in that also.

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16-09-2015, 03:43 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(16-09-2015 03:06 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  And I am done with you.

Don't go away mad ... just go away.

Drinking Beverage

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16-09-2015, 03:44 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(16-09-2015 03:35 PM)Free Wrote:  Seriously, the list is endlessly full of high quality people discussing this and writing articles about it.

Oh, look. Something at least slightly new.

Computer scientist, article published on a UFO-chaser site... nope.

"Professional ufologist", articles hosted on personal web site... nope.

Oh, look. An actual scientist. No articles claiming that alien visitation occurs, though. Just some propositions for how UFO investigations should be conducted.

And not a single article that actually provides evidence in favor of alien visitation.

I'd say that it was exciting while it lasted, but no. It wasn't.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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16-09-2015, 03:58 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
The first Hawking article doesn't discuss UFOs.

From the second:
Quote:What is the explanation of why we have not been visited?

He doesn't think we've been visited...

I won't speculate on the quality of the other guys, but they're publishing in UFO journals - not recognised scientific journals like nature or ... well tbh I dunno, maybe an astronomy journal? Nature *would* publish e.g. if you found a bit of an alien space craft - provably alien. How you'd prove that is an interesting thought, but yeah... unverified anecdotal reports... if you ever find one that *is* verifiable, shout.

Until then I'll stick to the 'bandwagon' line Thumbsup

Incidentally the reason I reject UFO journals is 'cos they're not well-known and highly likely to be flaky. Same reason I reject creationist journals. Of course there's some probability that a guy *might* publish a genuine proper article in such a journal but... what kinda standards of peer review do these journals apply?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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16-09-2015, 04:27 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(16-09-2015 03:58 PM)morondog Wrote:  The first Hawking article doesn't discuss UFOs.

From the second:
Quote:What is the explanation of why we have not been visited?

He doesn't think we've been visited...

I won't speculate on the quality of the other guys, but they're publishing in UFO journals - not recognised scientific journals like nature or ... well tbh I dunno, maybe an astronomy journal? Nature *would* publish e.g. if you found a bit of an alien space craft - provably alien. How you'd prove that is an interesting thought, but yeah... unverified anecdotal reports... if you ever find one that *is* verifiable, shout.

Until then I'll stick to the 'bandwagon' line Thumbsup

Incidentally the reason I reject UFO journals is 'cos they're not well-known and highly likely to be flaky. Same reason I reject creationist journals. Of course there's some probability that a guy *might* publish a genuine proper article in such a journal but... what kinda standards of peer review do these journals apply?

lol.

Oddly, because of own experience, I have become exceptionally skeptical of the experiences of others. I can't trust a single YouTube video because of the high quality of the fakes that are being made. Some of those fakes are so damn good, that they are just too damn good.

As far as alien abduction scenarios are concerned, only 1 has ever peaked my interest, only because 45 years ago an inter-racial couple would not want to draw attention to themselves with such "outrageous" claims.

I have no idea what "value" to assign to these peer reviewed articles by these scientists. I acknowledge some of them to be very speculative, and don't do much to actually further the search for any truth to the existence of ET, or alien visitation.

The only thing I acknowledge about these scientists is a burning desire on their part to get to the truth of the matter. Stanton Friedman is your best bet for the best arguments to support alien visitation, and to find any peer reviewed papers that show a great deal of credulity.

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16-09-2015, 04:29 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(16-09-2015 03:44 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(16-09-2015 03:35 PM)Free Wrote:  Seriously, the list is endlessly full of high quality people discussing this and writing articles about it.

Oh, look. Something at least slightly new.

Computer scientist, article published on a UFO-chaser site... nope.

"Professional ufologist", articles hosted on personal web site... nope.

Oh, look. An actual scientist. No articles claiming that alien visitation occurs, though. Just some propositions for how UFO investigations should be conducted.

And not a single article that actually provides evidence in favor of alien visitation.

I'd say that it was exciting while it lasted, but no. It wasn't.

You can click the "dozens more" and search for yourself. That's why the link is there.

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16-09-2015, 04:46 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(16-09-2015 04:29 PM)Free Wrote:  You can click the "dozens more" and search for yourself. That's why the link is there.

I have.

There's nothing.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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