UFO Disclosure
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09-09-2015, 06:01 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(09-09-2015 05:58 PM)Free Wrote:  The only thing I am trying to prove is the quality of the possibility.

This is fine.

(09-09-2015 05:58 PM)Free Wrote:  For sure, the eyewitness testimony in this cannot conclusively prove that it was an alien controlled spacecraft, but what it does, at least for me, is bring the slider of credibility up a few notches.

This is fallacious.

(09-09-2015 05:58 PM)Free Wrote:  I'm not looking for conclusiveness with this particular case, because it cannot be achieved.

It can.

The idea that aliens have visited Earth is conclusively bunk.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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09-09-2015, 06:07 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(09-09-2015 05:35 PM)daniel1948 Wrote:  I am not an ornithologist. I don't know a Clark's Nutcracker from a carrier pigeon. Therefore, to me, every bird is a UFO. It flies and I cannot identify it. Except for penguins, which don't fly, and kiwis and ostriches, and a few others.

But space aliens? I am not sure which is more idiotic: belief in God, or belief that the Earth has been visited by space aliens. The speed of light is the fastest speed there is, and the nearest planets that might have technological civilizations are so far away that it would just take too long to get here. This is not a problem that can be solved with technology. It's a fundamental limitation.

Of course, lots of things that fly manage to evade identification by the folks on the ground. So, UFOs: yes; space aliens, no!

Conventional wisdom.

We cannot speak as to the technology of an alien race from the perspective of humanity. Our knowledge of physics may absolutely pale in comparison for all we know. We, as humans, may not possess the intellectual capacity to even begin to understand the physics an alien culture may have developed.

To demonstrate what I am saying, do you think your pets can understand how to use a computer? Why not? Because they are not human.

Aliens would not be human either, and their perspective on things could be as different from ours, as ours is from our pets.

Hence, we cannot make that comparison for the simple reason that we cannot humanize an alien race.

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09-09-2015, 06:15 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(09-09-2015 06:01 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 05:58 PM)Free Wrote:  The only thing I am trying to prove is the quality of the possibility.

This is fine.

(09-09-2015 05:58 PM)Free Wrote:  For sure, the eyewitness testimony in this cannot conclusively prove that it was an alien controlled spacecraft, but what it does, at least for me, is bring the slider of credibility up a few notches.

This is fallacious.

No, it is not.

Quote:
(09-09-2015 05:58 PM)Free Wrote:  I'm not looking for conclusiveness with this particular case, because it cannot be achieved.

It can.

The idea that aliens have visited Earth is conclusively bunk.

That's your opinion, and you are welcomed to it.

After decades of researching this subject, my opinion is considerably different. I have made that known here since Day 1

So yes, I do believe in the great possibility of aliens visiting earth, and the reason is because of the vast knowledge of the subject that I have.

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09-09-2015, 06:33 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(09-09-2015 06:15 PM)Free Wrote:  No, it is not.

It absolutely is.

Bare assertion is a fallacy no matter who is making the assertion.

(09-09-2015 06:15 PM)Free Wrote:  That's your opinion, and you are welcomed to it.

After decades of researching this subject, my opinion is considerably different. I have made that known here since Day 1

So yes, I do believe in the great possibility of aliens visiting earth, and the reason is because of the vast knowledge of the subject that I have.

Uh huh.

Meanwhile, myself, and pretty much every other rational person who studies the issue, comes to the opposite conclusion. Because - and this is the key - to conclude otherwise is irrational.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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09-09-2015, 06:58 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(09-09-2015 05:18 PM)Free Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 04:24 PM)Marozz Wrote:  I agree, eyewitness accounts don't constitute evidence. Thousands of people witnessed the Miracle of the Sun in Fatima in October 1917 after a couple of kids saw the Virgin Mary. An utter load of bollocks but millions of Catholics would beg to differ.

So you also are comparing 12 expert witnesses with no preconceived beliefs to a religious gathering of crazed religious fanatics who were already predisposed to expecting something to happen?

Really?

Big Grin

12 Christians get together and each relays a personal relationship with Jesus. Does this make Jesus real?

Free, reading your posts and exchanging UFO for Christ, you could be arguing for Christianity.

Who are these experts? Chuck Yeager? Gunther Rall? Go back and watch the video and look up these people on wiki. I'd not call many of them aviation experts.

I think this argument is another waste of time, like the 9/11 thread.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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09-09-2015, 07:00 PM (This post was last modified: 09-09-2015 07:12 PM by Free.)
RE: UFO Disclosure
(09-09-2015 06:33 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 06:15 PM)Free Wrote:  No, it is not.

It absolutely is.

Bare assertion is a fallacy no matter who is making the assertion.

And your assumption of what is deemed as evidence has been put in serious doubt by evidence to the contrary. Hence, your assertion of an assertion is without merit.

Quote:
(09-09-2015 06:15 PM)Free Wrote:  That's your opinion, and you are welcomed to it.

After decades of researching this subject, my opinion is considerably different. I have made that known here since Day 1

So yes, I do believe in the great possibility of aliens visiting earth, and the reason is because of the vast knowledge of the subject that I have.

Uh huh.

Meanwhile, myself, and pretty much every other rational person who studies the issue, comes to the opposite conclusion. Because - and this is the key - to conclude otherwise is irrational.

I see. Since you are concluding with your own premise, this is circular logic.

Those who idly study this issue do not have the education on this issue to draw any valid conclusions pro or con. You can surmise with your limited knowledge anything you choose, but to someone like myself who is indeed very well acquainted, it is obvious that you are not.

How do I know? Experience. Nothing beats it.

Now, I am not here to insult you, nor to lord over you any experience I have. Like all things though, the more experience someone has with a subject the more they know about it.

I cannot prove to you or anyone else the existence of aliens because it's not within my capacity to do so. But with my experience, I have proven to myself that it is far more probable that aliens have visited earth than not.

From the history of UFO sightings, to the unretouched photos from 60+ years ago, from very credible eyewitness reports to the admission of government personnel and agencies, it all amounts to something.

I do not require a UFO landing on the White House lawn to conclude that the probability is high.

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09-09-2015, 07:02 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
there is life in the universe other than ours that's a mathematical certainty and there are UFOs for sure but no aliens have visited earth UFOs are terrestrial in origin we are just too far out of the way and I just don't buy it
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09-09-2015, 07:07 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(09-09-2015 06:58 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 05:18 PM)Free Wrote:  So you also are comparing 12 expert witnesses with no preconceived beliefs to a religious gathering of crazed religious fanatics who were already predisposed to expecting something to happen?

Really?

Big Grin

12 Christians get together and each relays a personal relationship with Jesus. Does this make Jesus real?

Have all twelve been interviewed?
Have all 12 reported identical descriptions of this Jesus?
Have all 12 seen Jesus at the same time?


Do you see the difference? They got together and collaborated. None of this can be compared to the Chicago O'Hare situation.

Quote:Free, reading your posts and exchanging UFO for Christ, you could be arguing for Christianity.

Not even close. Your analogy is far from accurate.

Quote:Who are these experts? Chuck Yeager? Gunther Rall? Go back and watch the video and look up these people on wiki. I'd not call many of them aviation experts.

I think this argument is another waste of time, like the 9/11 thread.

They are aircraft pilots, aircraft mechanics, supervisors, hangar personnel, and others intimately familiar with aircraft. There was actually far more than 12. Like I said at the beginning, the Wiki doesn't even come close to all the details.

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09-09-2015, 07:17 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(09-09-2015 06:07 PM)Free Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 05:35 PM)daniel1948 Wrote:  I am not an ornithologist. I don't know a Clark's Nutcracker from a carrier pigeon. Therefore, to me, every bird is a UFO. It flies and I cannot identify it. Except for penguins, which don't fly, and kiwis and ostriches, and a few others.

But space aliens? I am not sure which is more idiotic: belief in God, or belief that the Earth has been visited by space aliens. The speed of light is the fastest speed there is, and the nearest planets that might have technological civilizations are so far away that it would just take too long to get here. This is not a problem that can be solved with technology. It's a fundamental limitation.

Of course, lots of things that fly manage to evade identification by the folks on the ground. So, UFOs: yes; space aliens, no!

Conventional wisdom.

We cannot speak as to the technology of an alien race from the perspective of humanity. Our knowledge of physics may absolutely pale in comparison for all we know. We, as humans, may not possess the intellectual capacity to even begin to understand the physics an alien culture may have developed.

To demonstrate what I am saying, do you think your pets can understand how to use a computer? Why not? Because they are not human.

Aliens would not be human either, and their perspective on things could be as different from ours, as ours is from our pets.

Hence, we cannot make that comparison for the simple reason that we cannot humanize an alien race.

How is this, exactly, different from the God of the Gaps?
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09-09-2015, 07:45 PM
RE: UFO Disclosure
(09-09-2015 07:07 PM)Free Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 06:58 PM)Banjo Wrote:  12 Christians get together and each relays a personal relationship with Jesus. Does this make Jesus real?

Have all twelve been interviewed?
Have all 12 reported identical descriptions of this Jesus?
Have all 12 seen Jesus at the same time?


Do you see the difference? They got together and collaborated. None of this can be compared to the Chicago O'Hare situation.

Quote:Free, reading your posts and exchanging UFO for Christ, you could be arguing for Christianity.

Not even close. Your analogy is far from accurate.

Quote:Who are these experts? Chuck Yeager? Gunther Rall? Go back and watch the video and look up these people on wiki. I'd not call many of them aviation experts.

I think this argument is another waste of time, like the 9/11 thread.

They are aircraft pilots, aircraft mechanics, supervisors, hangar personnel, and others intimately familiar with aircraft. There was actually far more than 12. Like I said at the beginning, the Wiki doesn't even come close to all the details.



Well Rall shot down 275 aircraft and Yeager is one of the greatest test pilots of all time who also became a general in the air force. I'd rate those two as experts over a mechanic.

I should ask, have you seen this film? If so can you enlighten me as the the real expertise of these "experts"? I could not find much. There's huge amounts on Chuck and Gunther.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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