UK democracy deficit?
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09-05-2015, 11:27 PM
RE: UK democracy deficit?
Firstly, Nigel Farage may happily criticise the UK political system, but since there was a referendum on the issue and the UK voting populace confirmed they like the current set up then his choices were limited to
  • compete under the rules as they stand.
  • boycott the election.
He chose to compete.

Next, your allegation is that gerrymandering was used to deny UKIP seats in parliament. Gerrymandering would imply *illegal* redrawing of constituency boundaries in order to garner more votes. The wikipedia article on gerrymandering is rather interesting should you wish to take a gander. There is mention of a Conservative *attempt* to redraw electoral boundary lines which was postponed until after the UK general election which has just taken place.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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10-05-2015, 01:12 AM
RE: UK democracy deficit?
I'm pretty sure MMP is a dumb idea. You get kinda-representative, kinda-proportional government... but in the end you still have one party in control of the chamber. A house of representatives engineered towards a stable two-party state, plus a senate engineered to be proportional. No president/king, or if that position exists it is not directly elected and only has the power to sack the government in case of extreme incompetence. That's the best form of government yet invented.

The two-party house of reps is stable enough to form long-term agendas and govern consistently. The senate is there to represent the people against the government of the day to avoid overreach. That's how you make laws.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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10-05-2015, 04:48 PM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2015 04:59 PM by joben1.)
RE: UK democracy deficit?
(09-05-2015 11:27 PM)morondog Wrote:  Firstly, Nigel Farage may happily criticise the UK political system, but since there was a referendum on the issue and the UK voting populace confirmed they like the current set up then his choices were limited to
  • compete under the rules as they stand.
  • boycott the election.
He chose to compete.

Next, your allegation is that gerrymandering was used to deny UKIP seats in parliament. Gerrymandering would imply *illegal* redrawing of constituency boundaries in order to garner more votes. The wikipedia article on gerrymandering is rather interesting should you wish to take a gander. There is mention of a Conservative *attempt* to redraw electoral boundary lines which was postponed until after the UK general election which has just taken place.

Well we were asked to vote on AV which is just a watered down version of fptp. The reason the Tories held this referendum was because of the Lib Dems insistence on some kind of change to the voting system, and so they came up with AV knowing that it wouldn't be voted in. There is now, and has been for some time, a big cry for change in the voting system here, and there have been mass demonstrations in London just one day after the election. I think these demonstrations will only get bigger and more widespread as time goes on.

And, by the way, the gerrymandering is I presume in reference to 200,000 postal vote papers being stolen in the Thanet area which is a known anti-tory area, and the fact that postal vote forms mysteriously never arrived in time for the vote; then Thanet suddenly became a Tory loving area according to the results.

Wide of the Mark agrees that animals change over time but thinks evolution is false. Facepalm
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11-05-2015, 03:03 AM
RE: UK democracy deficit?
(10-05-2015 04:48 PM)joben1 Wrote:  And, by the way, the gerrymandering is I presume in reference to 200,000 postal vote papers being stolen in the Thanet area which is a known anti-tory area, and the fact that postal vote forms mysteriously never arrived in time for the vote; then Thanet suddenly became a Tory loving area according to the results.

That is vote rigging, if true, and can be challenged in court. So let there be a court challenge.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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11-05-2015, 04:55 AM (This post was last modified: 11-05-2015 05:01 AM by joben1.)
RE: UK democracy deficit?
Everything I said is true, but yes, you are correct. I was under the impression that gerrymandering was synonymous with cheating. It is a term unfamiliar to us Brits.

Wide of the Mark agrees that animals change over time but thinks evolution is false. Facepalm
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11-05-2015, 05:15 AM
RE: UK democracy deficit?
(11-05-2015 04:55 AM)joben1 Wrote:  Everything I said is true, but yes, you are correct. I was under the impression that gerrymandering was synonymous with cheating. It is a term unfamiliar to us Brits.

I was also unfamiliar, but knew it was vaguely to do with redrawing constituency lines. Turns out there're a lot of ways to cheat in elections...

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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11-05-2015, 05:40 AM
RE: UK democracy deficit?
Any way you look at it - the problem with politics - is it's infested with politicians.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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11-05-2015, 06:21 AM
RE: UK democracy deficit?
(10-05-2015 01:12 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  I'm pretty sure MMP is a dumb idea. You get kinda-representative, kinda-proportional government... but in the end you still have one party in control of the chamber.

Do you mean Mixed-member proportional representation? We've had that in Scotland since 1999, it works pretty well and there's only been one election where a party took a majority since it started. The others all produced coalitions or a minority government.

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