US Politics Cause Massive Gun and Ammo Shortage.
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24-03-2013, 08:39 PM
RE: US Politics Cause Massive Gun and Ammo Shortage.
(24-03-2013 08:22 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Evenheathen, your right. Even if ,as I stated above, I dont think people should own AR's, the fact that the conversation is bogged down on useless details like whats an assualt riffle ect is counter-productive. So lets start with the soft ball issue 90% approval even among gun owners. Close all background check loopholes. I dont care if you want to sell a gun to your hunting buddy Mack who you've known for 30 years both of you go down to the gun store fill out a nice easy form pay a small fee (Personaly I'm thinking $25) and your good to go as long as Mack comes back clean.
I would agree that gun registration would be a great idea, fifty years ago. This country is fucking armed to the teeth, and there's no way to round up and register all of the guns. Just no way. The US has been a gun culture from the get go. From the revolution to the wild west to the gang-bangers today. It's just the way it is. I don't fear the gov't taking all of our weapons, I don't think it would be possible. It may be a problem, but it is what it is and we can't really take it back now. Yes, we have a very high gun casualty rate in this country, and that's very unfortunate, but if you live by the gun you die by the gun. I don't have any good answers, and I haven't heard any from anyone else either.
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24-03-2013, 08:39 PM
RE: US Politics Cause Massive Gun and Ammo Shortage.
Hunting is one thing. Self defense is another. It's not uncommon for a half dozen rounds or more to be fired in self defense situations, with most of them not hitting their targets... And what are you going to do about revolvers? Or all the shotguns or rifles with tubular magazines? Or weapons with internal magazines like the SKS or Garand? Two rounds? That's not "the perfect world", it's idiocy, plain and simple. It's like saying that all cars should travel at 15mph and that would be the perfect world. Maybe it seems like it to you, but it's a pretty naive point of view.

Not to mention that just practice and recreation consumes hundreds of rounds a session...


If you want to talk guns, even if you don't like them, at least fucking go to a range and spend $100 to rent a rifle or handgun, and buy a hundred rounds and burn through it just to see what this stuff is actually about. With a competent instructor or buddy to teach you the safety rules and manual of arms and such, of course. And spend ten fucking minutes to understand the technology before spouting off nonsense like a two round magazine limit...


Two rounds. Fucking christ on a bike.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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24-03-2013, 08:44 PM
RE: US Politics Cause Massive Gun and Ammo Shortage.
(24-03-2013 08:04 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
Quote: Another issue is the new law which has prevented the commercial sale of body armor. Why? Cause big brother is limiting freedom and also preventing people from protecting themselves in the event of a 1984 scenario
Lets be totaly real for a minute. If the federal government wants to bring you in they can. A hand gun, an AR hell even a rocket launcher will not stop them. If the far right gun nut fantesy of the guv'mint commin to take their guns were to go down my money is on the most over funded military in the whole of human history. Lets face it 1 predator drone could remove your entire house, everyone in it and by the time you had to to say "Hey you guys hear something?" its too late. The fallacy of the 2nd ammendmant securing the others is a lie.
Now, if you want to own a weapon, fine by me fill out the forms go through a background check and a waiting period and its all yours. Personaly I dont belive any civillian needs an AR but I have heard the arguments from the other side and it is one of those points I'll concede has some wiggle room. Now were it up to me the magazine capacity would be 2 rounds. Military and Police exemptions. For hunting and home defense 2 shots is all you need. Make possetion of larger clips a heavy offense (major fines and jail time after a grace turn in period) and even a black market would be discouraged.
Now on the flip side before we can even begin to deal with the gun problem there are other issues that should take precidence. The failed drug war needs to be ended and that alone would solve a large majority of the gun violence in the country. Ultimatly unto we can get the root cause for the problem under control and bleed the main money maker from criminals we will never be able to deal with our countries other problems.
How will you discourage a black market through prohibition?

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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24-03-2013, 08:46 PM
RE: US Politics Cause Massive Gun and Ammo Shortage.
Sorry if I seemed rude, but it really is just utter nonsense and frustrating ignorance. It's like a Christian saying that atheists should just learn to live with religion or get out of the country because America is 99% Christian and it was founded on Christian values... Or like someone saying that computer use should be restricted and the internet monitored thoroughly at all major servers to prevent "hacking".... Or like someone saying that we should cut down trees because trees make carbon dioxide...

Not all directly analogous, but your comments elicit the same type of "Are you fucking kidding me?" frustration as comments like those would. They reflect a deep ignorance of the subject, an uninformed opinion driven by a nigh-irresponsible lack of research and a shallow, emotionally driven perception of the subject matter.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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24-03-2013, 08:48 PM
RE: US Politics Cause Massive Gun and Ammo Shortage.
(24-03-2013 08:39 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Hunting is one thing. Self defense is another. It's not uncommon for a half dozen rounds or more to be fired in self defense situations, with most of them not hitting their targets... And what are you going to do about revolvers? Or all the shotguns or rifles with tubular magazines? Or weapons with internal magazines like the SKS or Garand? Two rounds? That's not "the perfect world", it's idiocy, plain and simple. It's like saying that all cars should travel at 15mph and that would be the perfect world. Maybe it seems like it to you, but it's a pretty naive point of view.

Not to mention that just practice and recreation consumes hundreds of rounds a session...


If you want to talk guns, even if you don't like them, at least fucking go to a range and spend $100 to rent a rifle or handgun, and buy a hundred rounds and burn through it just to see what this stuff is actually about. With a competent instructor or buddy to teach you the safety rules and manual of arms and such, of course. And spend ten fucking minutes to understand the technology before spouting off nonsense like a two round magazine limit...


Two rounds. Fucking christ on a bike.
You know what, I was wrong. To be completly honest that was a throwaway comment and your right the more I think it over the less workable it is. Whats an aceptable number to you 6 rounds 10, 15? For hunting if you cant drop it in 2 give it up but that doesnt cover every instance and thats more what I was thinking when I posted it.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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24-03-2013, 08:51 PM
RE: US Politics Cause Massive Gun and Ammo Shortage.
(24-03-2013 08:44 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(24-03-2013 08:04 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Lets be totaly real for a minute. If the federal government wants to bring you in they can. A hand gun, an AR hell even a rocket launcher will not stop them. If the far right gun nut fantesy of the guv'mint commin to take their guns were to go down my money is on the most over funded military in the whole of human history. Lets face it 1 predator drone could remove your entire house, everyone in it and by the time you had to to say "Hey you guys hear something?" its too late. The fallacy of the 2nd ammendmant securing the others is a lie.
Now, if you want to own a weapon, fine by me fill out the forms go through a background check and a waiting period and its all yours. Personaly I dont belive any civillian needs an AR but I have heard the arguments from the other side and it is one of those points I'll concede has some wiggle room. Now were it up to me the magazine capacity would be 2 rounds. Military and Police exemptions. For hunting and home defense 2 shots is all you need. Make possetion of larger clips a heavy offense (major fines and jail time after a grace turn in period) and even a black market would be discouraged.
Now on the flip side before we can even begin to deal with the gun problem there are other issues that should take precidence. The failed drug war needs to be ended and that alone would solve a large majority of the gun violence in the country. Ultimatly unto we can get the root cause for the problem under control and bleed the main money maker from criminals we will never be able to deal with our countries other problems.
How will you discourage a black market through prohibition?
By starving the beast of its main income source black market drug money and then making the reprocussions so heavy as to not be worth it. I am looking very long term here and again this may not be workable in this country with the prolifferation of weapons avalible.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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24-03-2013, 08:51 PM (This post was last modified: 24-03-2013 08:59 PM by Phaedrus.)
RE: US Politics Cause Massive Gun and Ammo Shortage.
Anything less than 10 is stupid. Anything less than 20 is inflammatory. 20 I would give if I absolutely had to, but there are rifles that have been sold on the market for 50 years with 30 round magazines, and they are among the least used rifles in crime... So magazines clearly are not even an issue. Why limit magazine capacity if it doesn't make any different in crime or homicide? And there's currently no clear link that it does. The Connecticut shooting was done with standard handgun capacity 15-17 round magazines (reports are confused as to exactly what was used, but those are the standard capacities for the guns he was using), not some evil "hi-cap" mag.



For an overview:

Typical .22 plinking gun, for recreation: 10 - 25 rounds
Typical competition target gun: 1 - 10 rounds
Typical revolver: 5 - 6 rounds
Typical shotgun: 5 - 8 rounds
Typical compact handgun: 7 - 12 rounds
Typical full size handgun: 12 - 17 rounds
Typical hunting rifle: 3 - 8 rounds
Typical lever action rifle: 8 - 16 rounds
Typical historical collectable rifle: 5 - 20 rounds
Typical sporting rifle (assault weapon): 20 - 30 rounds

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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24-03-2013, 08:56 PM
RE: US Politics Cause Massive Gun and Ammo Shortage.
(24-03-2013 08:44 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  How will you discourage a black market through prohibition?
A fast application of the Death Penalty - like what China does for Drug Trafficking. It's stupid and cruel, but it will work so long as people support the government.

And as far as some fat-ass American Gun Nut wearing a "Molon Labe" shirt, all the government would have to do with this guy is shout "Booo" and after the guy is done shitting himself, he'll turn in his guns real quick.
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24-03-2013, 08:59 PM
RE: US Politics Cause Massive Gun and Ammo Shortage.
(24-03-2013 08:51 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(24-03-2013 08:44 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  How will you discourage a black market through prohibition?
By starving the beast of its main income source black market drug money and then making the reprocussions so heavy as to not be worth it. I am looking very long term here and again this may not be workable in this country with the prolifferation of weapons avalible.
I didn't ask about the drug war. I agree that it needs to end... along with all the other wars against people this country has waged. I asked how you propose to discourage the black market through prohibition (making things illegal).

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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24-03-2013, 09:01 PM
RE: US Politics Cause Massive Gun and Ammo Shortage.
(24-03-2013 08:51 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Anything less than 10 is stupid. Anything less than 20 is inflammatory. 20 I would give if I absolutely had to, but there are rifles that have been sold on the market for 50 years with 30 round magazines, and they are among the least used rifles in crime... So magazines clearly are not even an issue. Why limit magazine capacity if it doesn't make any different in crime or homicide? And there's currently no clear link that it does. The Connecticut shooting was done with standard handgun capacity 15-17 round magazines (reports are confused as to exactly what was used, but those are the standard capacities for the guns he was using), not some evil "hi-cap" mag.



For an overview:

Typical .22 plinking gun, for recreation: 10 - 25 rounds
Typical revolver: 5 - 6 rounds
Typical shotgun: 5 - 8 rounds
Typical compact handgun: 7 - 12 rounds
Typical full size handgun: 12 - 17 rounds
Typical hunting rifle: 3 - 8 rounds
Typical lever action rifle: 8 - 16 rounds
Typical historical collectable rifle: 5 - 20 rounds
Typical sporting rifle (assault weapon): 20 - 30 rounds

Oh Conneticet just proves we need to spend more money on mental services it just has been taken over by the gun control crowd. I hope that didnt seem flippant I was concedding a poorly stated point. I was thinking more on the line of Columbine or Arura.
Now IIRC most gun crimes are commited with illegaly obtained handguns and thats where we need to focus our efforts for an actual change there but as long as there is so much easy money to be made off of drugs I dont see anyway to really make a diffrence.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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