US Politics Cause Massive Gun and Ammo Shortage.
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24-03-2013, 09:02 PM
RE: US Politics Cause Massive Gun and Ammo Shortage.
(24-03-2013 08:56 PM)Julius Wrote:  
(24-03-2013 08:44 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  How will you discourage a black market through prohibition?
A fast application of the Death Penalty - like what China does for Drug Trafficking. It's stupid and cruel, but it will work so long as people support the government.

And as far as some fat-ass American Gun Nut wearing a "Molon Labe" shirt, all the government would have to do with this guy is shout "Booo" and after the guy is done shitting himself, he'll turn in his guns real quick.
So after you're done murdering all the people who do things you don't like, will you give a speech about freedom?

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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24-03-2013, 09:05 PM
RE: US Politics Cause Massive Gun and Ammo Shortage.
(24-03-2013 09:02 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(24-03-2013 08:56 PM)Julius Wrote:  A fast application of the Death Penalty - like what China does for Drug Trafficking. It's stupid and cruel, but it will work so long as people support the government.

And as far as some fat-ass American Gun Nut wearing a "Molon Labe" shirt, all the government would have to do with this guy is shout "Booo" and after the guy is done shitting himself, he'll turn in his guns real quick.
So after you're done murdering all the people who do things you don't like, will you give a speech about freedom?
You asked how...and I told you how it's done. I wouldn't do it.

Now that you have finished "shooting the messenger", what have you to say?
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24-03-2013, 09:07 PM
RE: US Politics Cause Massive Gun and Ammo Shortage.
(24-03-2013 08:59 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(24-03-2013 08:51 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  By starving the beast of its main income source black market drug money and then making the reprocussions so heavy as to not be worth it. I am looking very long term here and again this may not be workable in this country with the prolifferation of weapons avalible.
I didn't ask about the drug war. I agree that it needs to end... along with all the other wars against people this country has waged. I asked how you propose to discourage the black market through prohibition (making things illegal).
The prohibition alone will never remove a black market in a situation where the costs are less than the potential rewards thats why I mentioned the drug war. It is basicaly like counterfieting currency, if the costs and risks outweigh the rewards long term then the problem tends to become less and less pronounced. There are few if any long term counterfiting operations ongoing due to enforcement and dillegnce.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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24-03-2013, 09:12 PM
RE: US Politics Cause Massive Gun and Ammo Shortage.
(24-03-2013 09:05 PM)Julius Wrote:  
(24-03-2013 09:02 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  So after you're done murdering all the people who do things you don't like, will you give a speech about freedom?
You asked how...and I told you how it's done. I wouldn't do it.

Now that you have finished "shooting the messenger", what have you to say?
I didn't ask you, I asked another user. You chimed in with an opinion and expected me to somehow know that it isn't yours. I'm not clairvoyant. Wink

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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24-03-2013, 09:21 PM
RE: US Politics Cause Massive Gun and Ammo Shortage.
(24-03-2013 09:07 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(24-03-2013 08:59 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  I didn't ask about the drug war. I agree that it needs to end... along with all the other wars against people this country has waged. I asked how you propose to discourage the black market through prohibition (making things illegal).
The prohibition alone will never remove a black market in a situation where the costs are less than the potential rewards thats why I mentioned the drug war. It is basicaly like counterfieting currency, if the costs and risks outweigh the rewards long term then the problem tends to become less and less pronounced. There are few if any long term counterfiting operations ongoing due to enforcement and dillegnce.
Counterfeiting is a bit different in the US due to counterfeit detection technology. Car stereos with anti theft technology aren't stolen much either but those without it are stolen quite often. My curiosity is with how you propose to prohibit something and at the same time discourage its sale on the black market, given that the black market exists only because of prohibition. That's akin to attempting to cure cancer by injecting cancer.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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24-03-2013, 09:31 PM
RE: US Politics Cause Massive Gun and Ammo Shortage.
(24-03-2013 09:21 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(24-03-2013 09:07 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  The prohibition alone will never remove a black market in a situation where the costs are less than the potential rewards thats why I mentioned the drug war. It is basicaly like counterfieting currency, if the costs and risks outweigh the rewards long term then the problem tends to become less and less pronounced. There are few if any long term counterfiting operations ongoing due to enforcement and dillegnce.
Counterfeiting is a bit different in the US due to counterfeit detection technology. Car stereos with anti theft technology aren't stolen much either but those without it are stolen quite often. My curiosity is with how you propose to prohibit something and at the same time discourage its sale on the black market, given that the black market exists only because of prohibition. That's akin to attempting to cure cancer by injecting cancer.
I am not claiming such a policy would eliminate something that doesnt exsist before it is enacted. I was just stating a way to minimise the creation and sustaining of a black market. With enough money you can get anything. However if we are looking to reduce the avalibility then making it so even a black market would find a request for the item a hard find it limits the buyer.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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24-03-2013, 09:37 PM
RE: US Politics Cause Massive Gun and Ammo Shortage.
There are over 300 million privately owned guns in the United States.

If they were made illegal, there is no way you could make them hard to find illegally. And guns don't just go away; they last decades.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
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24-03-2013, 09:38 PM
RE: US Politics Cause Massive Gun and Ammo Shortage.
(23-03-2013 02:14 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  If you are a hunter, or a shooter of any kind then you know it nearly impossible to buy ammo (excluding shotgun ammo and a few rifle cartridges) since the beginning of the year and it's gotten even worse as the months have wore on. I personally enjoy plinking with my .22, but also enjoy firing my 8mm Mauser on occasion so it doesn't go to pot, and keeping my handgun skills up to snuff by shooting my .40 cal at least a half dozen times a year. Others rely on their guns to put food on the table either directly or indirectly so this issue can be very serious for some folks. In any case a combination of events have caused this. Politicsc have freaked people the fuck out. The most obvious political target (no pun intended) is Obama and Biden for their executive orders, press conferences, and 'threats'. This is a touchy issue because their is a lot of division. I personally think these orders are bullshit caused by backdoor politics and undue fear mongering, but each person has their own opinion, so whatever, it's still a cause. Another issue is the new law which has prevented the commercial sale of body armor. Why? Cause big brother is limiting freedom and also preventing people from protecting themselves in the event of a 1984 scenario. Also, several ammunition factories in Colorado are effectively being forced to leave the state because of new state laws.

The effect of all of this is people are stockpiling, big time. If you don't already own an AR-15 or similar rifle, it is estimated that it will take two years if you get on a wait list now, assuming it is still legal. I have been looking at every store that sales ammo for over a month to get some .22's with no luck. You can usually get .22's (suitable for killing squirrels, rabbits, birds, snakes, but nothing larger than a coyote) for about 3 cents per round if buying in bulk up to about 20 cents for the cheap stuff. Now the only ammo you can find are being sold at massively gouged prices from individuals. I've seen people asking 60 cents a round for the cheap ammo, and over 2 bucks a round for the match grade competition stuff. By comparison larger rounds designed for warfare and medium to large game usually cost about a dollar a round. Maybe, just maybe, all this gun politics was not a good idea. It is having the exact opposite effect that was claimed that 'they' wanted. Maybe all of this this meddling was good for no one, except the gun a ammunition makers. Concealed Carry Permits have EXPLODED, and the state governments are having trouble processing all of the applications and teaching saftey courses fast anough to keep up with the demand. Combine this with the ammo shortages and some states, such as Texas have lowered the amount of rounds required for safety courses and shortened the safety training required in a desperate attempt to function.

My opinion? Government interference is rarely beneficial, (often harmful) used far more often than required. This is a perfect example of it.
It's a combination of paranoid, shitty old white people buying up guns and ammo for some civil war they think they're gonna fight and somehow take back America from the clutches of the Kenyan Muslim Socialist. But it's also the ammunition manufacturer's fault it that they refuse to open any new plants in the United States to manufacture small arms ammunition. ATK and CCI could, if they wanted to; two wars overseas and paranoid shitheads buying crates of their products here at home have earned them record profits. They just refuse to expand.

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24-03-2013, 09:52 PM (This post was last modified: 24-03-2013 09:57 PM by Julius.)
RE: US Politics Cause Massive Gun and Ammo Shortage.
(24-03-2013 09:38 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  It's a combination of paranoid, shitty old white people buying up guns and ammo for some civil war they think they're gonna fight and somehow take back America from the clutches of the Kenyan Muslim Socialist.
Folks...Carlo is not exaggerating one bit. I have talked to a bunch of these people and it's the saddest thing I have ever seen. Weeping These are the people that form the base of the Tea Party. They go to meetings on their government-subsidised Hoverounds and denounce Socialized Medicine while screaming that the Socialist Government better not mess with their Medicare. A lot of these people are retired government employees. It boggles the mind.
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24-03-2013, 09:58 PM
RE: US Politics Cause Massive Gun and Ammo Shortage.
(24-03-2013 09:52 PM)Julius Wrote:  
(24-03-2013 09:38 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  It's a combination of paranoid, shitty old white people buying up guns and ammo for some civil war they think they're gonna fight and somehow take back America from the clutches of the Kenyan Muslim Socialist.
Folks...Carlo is not exaggerating one bit. I have talked to a bunch of these people and it's the saddest thing I have ever seen. Weeping These are the people that form the base of the Tea Party.

No, there is quite a range of people, including first-time gun owners. I know many people who do not fit your stereotypical description.

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