US immigration
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03-08-2017, 01:17 PM
RE: US immigration
I see this as a foul move for many reasons.

It's true that the US immigration policy has been awful at many points in our history, and immigrants often have been treated terribly. However, I think it portends an even worse situation. If this passes, employers and the government get to box lower class/poor communities into low-paying, menial labor jobs, rather than helping citizens gain the skills for better paid work. Meanwhile, companies get to pay lower wages to legal immigrants, also driving down wages for Americans in those jobs.
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03-08-2017, 01:35 PM
RE: US immigration
(03-08-2017 01:17 PM)julep Wrote:  I see this as a foul move for many reasons.

It's true that the US immigration policy has been awful at many points in our history, and immigrants often have been treated terribly. However, I think it portends an even worse situation. If this passes, employers and the government get to box lower class/poor communities into low-paying, menial labor jobs, rather than helping citizens gain the skills for better paid work. Meanwhile, companies get to pay lower wages to legal immigrants, also driving down wages for Americans in those jobs.

Yep, instead what we should be doing is taxing uber billionaires and bringing wages up for everyone, including migrants.

Corporate America won't be fucking over just migrants and their families, it will also make things worse economically on those who live here and have legal status.

Every president for the past 50 years from both parties has created some sort of immigration reform. This uber hate for migrants started when Obama won his first election. 45 simply pandered to the worst in our society by unmasking it.

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03-08-2017, 06:22 PM
RE: US immigration
(03-08-2017 11:31 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  SO? I also hate to burst your bubble but those rules are never obeyed by 100% of migrants or refugees and never have been. Everyone from the Chinese/Asians whom helped build the continental railroad, to Italians. You name it, people from all over the world have come here both legally and without papers. If you think back then it was different you are kidding yourself.
Do you have a point? I ask because they were talking about the requirements specifically for legal immigration. They never said the rules were followed by 100% of migrants so it seems your manufacturing your own indignation at things people haven't even said. Secondly so what if they haven't? Does that not mean we shouldn't have or discuss comprehensive laws and requirements for legal immigration? People don't follow the laws governing murder 100% does that mean we shouldn't have or discuss laws pertaining to murder?

(03-08-2017 11:31 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  My Japanese X wife waited in line too, so? It does not mean we should become inhuman to those who are not as fortunate as to have those skills.
If you want a society that is both sustainable and thriving then you have to maintain at a minimum a higher degree of economic output over expenditures. It is entirely justified and rational to require of migrants a degree of self-sufficiency especially in a country like the US where the government spends nearly a half a trillion dollars more than it makes a year. How long exactly do you think that's sustainable for? Do you even have a clue why that's bad and why adding more of a burden to that system won't make it function better?
America spent nearly $650 billion on Medicare alone in 2015 but as of the latest revenue projections is only bringing in $270 billion for Medicare. You might recognize that as a hairs breath over 40% of what is needed.
Do you think this is sustainable and do you think it's more likely to be sustainable if we add to it?

(03-08-2017 11:31 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  What matters to me more is once they get here how we can provide to them so they can help themselves and their families.
That's wonderful, but what you think would be nice to do and what would actually work in reality aren't the same thing.

(03-08-2017 11:31 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  All 7 billion humans are the same species.
And to pretend that every one of them has the same values and is a good fit for any old country is willful ignorance of the highest order. Migrant preference should be given to those from cultures that are congruent with American culture, especially over those that are openly hostile to almost everything the nation stands for.
There are cultures out there that treat women wholesale as property, who throw gay people off buildings, to whom the idea of separation of church and state doesn't even occur and so on. For fuck sake the rate of female genital mutilation in t he US has doubled int he last 10 years:

"Immigration to the U.S. from African and Middle Eastern countries—where the practice of FGM is a deeply entrenched cultural tradition—is the sole factor for the rise in numbers, says Mark Mather, a demographer at PRB who led the data analysis. "


(03-08-2017 11:31 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  I am not against deportation, but if a non violent individual is going to get sent back to a place where they might starve to death or get murdered because of crime and or war, especially when it comes to kids no, I would not want them deported.
Agreed.

(03-08-2017 11:31 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  Even with those without papers, I never will advocate for blanket solutions. You have to think about what if it were you trying to flee famine, war or crime, would you want the place you might end up in to say "sorry sucks to be you"?
Agree with the first sentence and the rest is a giant argument from emotion. The notion that we should just ignore the proper application of law 'cause you feel bad about it is nonsense.


(03-08-2017 11:31 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  What Trump is advocating is inhuman and smacks of WW2 German xenophobia. It is absolutely nothing the west should aspire to act like.
Rolleyes Calling the other side Nazi's is a sure way to put the rational in rational poet.

(03-08-2017 01:35 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  Yep, instead what we should be doing is taxing uber billionaires and bringing wages up for everyone, including migrants.

Won't work.

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06-08-2017, 10:29 AM
RE: US immigration
So the thing is, Trump wants more factory jobs for Americans and to remove the lower income immigrants, so Americans can have those jobs, too.

Then he wants to import highly skilled higher income foreigners as the new immigrants.

So - low paying jobs for the natives, and high paying jobs for immigrants.

What?

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06-08-2017, 11:31 AM
RE: US immigration
(02-08-2017 06:06 PM)Vera Wrote:  Kind of the same with Brits and my job-stealing, dole-living countrymen. Let's see who's gonna be picking the strawberries for their strawberries and cream at Wimbledon or who's gonna sponge-bathe their incontinent, senile great-aunt Elspeth when they kick us nasty Eastern-Europeans out.

Yabut... don't you agree that the Bulgarians needs to ensure that their brightest and best people stay in Bulgaria and make it economically prosperous instead of coming to the UK to serve tea and coffee?

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06-08-2017, 11:44 AM
RE: US immigration
(06-08-2017 11:31 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Don't you agree that the Bulgarians needs to ensure that their brightest and best people stay in Bulgaria

And so they did. Granted, she is currently in Brazil, but still... Drinking Beverage

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06-08-2017, 12:50 PM
RE: US immigration
A Pew Research poll from Friday. A look at the charts will show you how President Trump is playing to his base on immigration, which is essentially the only group that supports his policies.

Quote: In a new Pew Research Center survey, 68% say America’s openness to foreigners is a defining characteristic of the nation, while just 29% say “if America is too open to people from all over the world, we risk losing our identity as a nation.”
...
Among Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents, an overwhelming share (84%) thinks America’s openness is essential to who we are as a nation. Republicans and Republican leaners are divided: 47% say America’s openness is essential, while 48% say being too open carries with it the risk of losing our identity as a nation.

Conservative Republicans are more likely than moderate and liberal Republicans to express concern that openness is a threat to the nation’s identity. About half (51%) of conservative Republicans say this, compared with 41% of moderate and liberal Republicans.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/201...-a-nation/

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06-08-2017, 01:49 PM
RE: US immigration
(06-08-2017 12:50 PM)Rockblossom Wrote:  A Pew Research poll from Friday. A look at the charts will show you how President Trump is playing to his base on immigration, which is essentially the only group that supports his policies.

Quote: In a new Pew Research Center survey, 68% say America’s openness to foreigners is a defining characteristic of the nation, while just 29% say “if America is too open to people from all over the world, we risk losing our identity as a nation.”
...
Among Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents, an overwhelming share (84%) thinks America’s openness is essential to who we are as a nation. Republicans and Republican leaners are divided: 47% say America’s openness is essential, while 48% say being too open carries with it the risk of losing our identity as a nation.

Conservative Republicans are more likely than moderate and liberal Republicans to express concern that openness is a threat to the nation’s identity. About half (51%) of conservative Republicans say this, compared with 41% of moderate and liberal Republicans.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/201...-a-nation/

The world has grown small. People will mix. The US used to be proud of being a melting pot. Everything is a melting pot now. Resistance is useless.

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07-08-2017, 06:39 AM
RE: US immigration
(06-08-2017 10:29 AM)Dom Wrote:  So the thing is, Trump wants more factory jobs for Americans and to remove the lower income immigrants, so Americans can have those jobs, too.

Then he wants to import highly skilled higher income foreigners as the new immigrants.

So - low paying jobs for the natives, and high paying jobs for immigrants.

What?

that's exactly what I thought when I heard it on NPR yesterday...

HuhHuhHuh

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