USA and Russia
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30-12-2016, 05:54 AM
RE: USA and Russia
(29-12-2016 10:26 PM)Aractus Wrote:  They (the CIA) don't know shit. They're watching the Russians with their spies to see what happens when they make these allegations. If they have solid evidence they would prove it.

You're projecting a bit. You have no idea what the CIA has. I agree that, given their history, there is no reason to implicitly trust them, but the number of agencies singing the same song on this far exceeds the CIA. And, they have released some of their evidence (but certainly none that links to Putin). It is possible they don't have it and are bluffing and you are free to believe that if you wish. But, this is a bold move to take with a new president coming in who clearly doesn't want to trust them.


(29-12-2016 10:26 PM)Aractus Wrote:  Assange met with Murray just one month ago in the Embassy - how is that "distancing himself"? He didn't rule out the Russians as a source until close to the US election, sure, and he's never said they were "leaks not hacks". That isn't distancing himself from Murray, that's just giving less information than Murray.

When asked to comment on Murray's statements, Assange simply said he's not authorized to speak for Wikileaks. I take that as distancing himself from what Murray said. He also continues to deny that the Russians were his source but, again, he may not know if they were.

If the CIA is making all this up to further their own agenda, they are taking a big risk. And, as of this morning Russia has already responded with a partial expulsion of US diplomats, something I'm sure we were expecting. So, the chess game is on.

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30-12-2016, 07:16 AM (This post was last modified: 30-12-2016 07:23 AM by Dom.)
RE: USA and Russia
So I hear that Putin's reply is nothing visible. He's not expelling anyone. He's inviting the kids of the US diplomats to the Kremlin instead.

You betcha though that stuff is happening behind the scenes...

These things are difficult because the intelligence agencies can't let us know stuff that would compromise them. So we will never know exact facts.

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30-12-2016, 07:26 AM
RE: USA and Russia
(30-12-2016 07:16 AM)Dom Wrote:  So I hear that Putin's reply is nothing visible. He's not expelling anyone. He's inviting the kids of the US diplomats to the Kremlin instead.

Hostages?

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30-12-2016, 07:41 AM
RE: USA and Russia
Earlier there was a story Russia was expelling 35 US diplomats, but I now see they aren't going forward with that plan. Interesting.

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30-12-2016, 07:41 AM
RE: USA and Russia
Since I would not trust Putin if he said 2+2=4 I am wondering just what his tactic is.

Could be playing the innocent, or have something nasty cooking in the oven.

This is just another act in the horror opera of intrigue that is politics and diplomacy. I am also sure that the US and Europe have fingers in as many Russian pies as they can get awsy with. It was a case of the elections bring a good time to act all affronted.

Putin's "success" in getting a "deal" in Syria might be seen by many as good work, gaining him Brownie points. He has to get Iran to take their fingers out of that pie though, send the Hezbollah back home. Also find a consensus yo deal with Daesh.

If the US-Iran dialogue survives Trump (and a lot of his rich buddies will want it to, big market potential) there is going to be some interesting moves - balls in the air being juggled by all!

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30-12-2016, 08:15 AM
RE: USA and Russia
(30-12-2016 07:41 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  Since I would not trust Putin if he said 2+2=4 I am wondering just what his tactic is.

Could be playing the innocent, or have something nasty cooking in the oven.

This is just another act in the horror opera of intrigue that is politics and diplomacy. I am also sure that the US and Europe have fingers in as many Russian pies as they can get awsy with. It was a case of the elections bring a good time to act all affronted.

Putin's "success" in getting a "deal" in Syria might be seen by many as good work, gaining him Brownie points. He has to get Iran to take their fingers out of that pie though, send the Hezbollah back home. Also find a consensus yo deal with Daesh.

If the US-Iran dialogue survives Trump (and a lot of his rich buddies will want it to, big market potential) there is going to be some interesting moves - balls in the air being juggled by all!

He needs Trump to lift the trade sanctions. He's going to play the innocent sweet guy.

I do still think that there is a lot more to Trump and Putin than meets the eye. A lot more.

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30-12-2016, 08:29 AM
RE: USA and Russia
(30-12-2016 08:15 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(30-12-2016 07:41 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  Since I would not trust Putin if he said 2+2=4 I am wondering just what his tactic is.

Could be playing the innocent, or have something nasty cooking in the oven.

This is just another act in the horror opera of intrigue that is politics and diplomacy. I am also sure that the US and Europe have fingers in as many Russian pies as they can get awsy with. It was a case of the elections bring a good time to act all affronted.

Putin's "success" in getting a "deal" in Syria might be seen by many as good work, gaining him Brownie points. He has to get Iran to take their fingers out of that pie though, send the Hezbollah back home. Also find a consensus yo deal with Daesh.

If the US-Iran dialogue survives Trump (and a lot of his rich buddies will want it to, big market potential) there is going to be some interesting moves - balls in the air being juggled by all!

He needs Trump to lift the trade sanctions. He's going to play the innocent sweet guy.

I do still think that there is a lot more to Trump and Putin than meets the eye. A lot more.

I think Putin has a ton of blackmail-worthy information on Trump, and quite probably Trump's kids, along with loans and other financial entanglements that Trump hasn't disclosed. Putin doesn't need to worry about real impact from Obama's current moves, just optics, so he's adopting a magnanimous stance. In less than a month, the Puppet-Traitor in Chief will take office and give Putin everything he wants.
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30-12-2016, 08:39 AM
RE: USA and Russia
(30-12-2016 08:29 AM)julep Wrote:  
(30-12-2016 08:15 AM)Dom Wrote:  He needs Trump to lift the trade sanctions. He's going to play the innocent sweet guy.

I do still think that there is a lot more to Trump and Putin than meets the eye. A lot more.

I think Putin has a ton of blackmail-worthy information on Trump, and quite probably Trump's kids, along with loans and other financial entanglements that Trump hasn't disclosed. Putin doesn't need to worry about real impact from Obama's current moves, just optics, so he's adopting a magnanimous stance. In less than a month, the Puppet-Traitor in Chief will take office and give Putin everything he wants.

A few years ago Trump's son said that their money came predominantly from Russia.

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30-12-2016, 08:50 AM
RE: USA and Russia
I also suspect that Putin figures his problems go away on January 21. And, he may very well be right. But, if Trump does that, it looks like he's shaping up to have a very acrimonious relationship with his own intelligence service and his own party-controlled Congress.

The mainstream Republicans hate him as much as the Democrats do. This was never their guy and never their choice so I doubt they will have any real qualms about tieing him up in knots as soon as he takes office.

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30-12-2016, 08:55 AM
RE: USA and Russia
(30-12-2016 08:50 AM)BnW Wrote:  I also suspect that Putin figures his problems go away on January 21. And, he may very well be right. But, if Trump does that, it looks like he's shaping up to have a very acrimonious relationship with his own intelligence service and his own party-controlled Congress.

The mainstream Republicans hate him as much as the Democrats do. This was never their guy and never their choice so I doubt they will have any real qualms about tieing him up in knots as soon as he takes office.

Love or hate - Trump doesn't care. Either fills his need for importance. He doesn't care whom he offends or who agrees with him - he knows best. He doesn't need no stinking intelligence services.

That said, he can also be manipulated with praise and adoration - and we don't know who all in his administration and abroad are aware of this. Putin certainly seems to be.

He is such a freaking wild card...

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