USA and Russia
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30-12-2016, 09:02 AM
RE: USA and Russia
(30-12-2016 07:41 AM)BnW Wrote:  Earlier there was a story Russia was expelling 35 US diplomats, but I now see they aren't going forward with that plan. Interesting.
Smart move. No reason to escalate the situation when someone with a more favorable view towards Russia is going to become president in less than a month.

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30-12-2016, 09:03 AM
RE: USA and Russia
(30-12-2016 08:55 AM)Dom Wrote:  That said, he can also be manipulated with praise and adoration

Though some are more susceptible than others, that's pretty much manipulation 101 for everyone right there. Figure out what they take pride in and establish yourself as someone who consistently strokes their ego, and you have all the leverage you'll ever need to control them.

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30-12-2016, 09:05 AM
RE: USA and Russia
Maybe. It's tough to know how much of Trump's public persona is real. It's possible he's every bit the lunatic he presents himself as, but it's also possible that, behind closed doors, he's a rational human being. I see little evidence of it, but it's possible.

One thing I think he's going to have to adjust to is the idea of co-equal branches of government. The Congress isn't going to just roll over for him like he may expect. He possibly believed that having Republicans in charge of both houses would mean he could do whatever he wants, but they are already starting to flex their muscles. And, part of me believes that is why many senior Republicans were so willing to go along with these sanctions. From what I read early this morning, the senior Republican leadership was consulted on these actions in advance, whereas the Trump transition team was merely briefed shortly before it happened. That's really a lack of respect from the Obama team to the incoming administration, and I have little doubt that was deliberate.

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30-12-2016, 09:17 AM
RE: USA and Russia
I'm not really all that worried. Russia can't win a war in Europe or the US by classic manpower, and everybody has a fucking nuclear warhead by this time. North Korea is just as likely to start WW3 as Russia is by nuking the other Korea.

Russia will keep doing what they've always done. Bully tiny or weak states that was once their vassal and pretend to be a superpower, which they will unlikely ever be again. Russia is poor as shit, and with the amount of corruption and spening on the millitary budget, they'll stay poor as shit.

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30-12-2016, 09:19 AM
RE: USA and Russia
(30-12-2016 05:54 AM)BnW Wrote:  When asked to comment on Murray's statements, Assange simply said he's not authorized to speak for Wikileaks. I take that as distancing himself from what Murray said. He also continues to deny that the Russians were his source but, again, he may not know if they were.

Well Murray says he received the DNC leaks personally. Sure that doesn't mean he knows anything about the Clinton-server hacks or leaks, but it does mean he knows who the source is.

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30-12-2016, 09:58 AM
RE: USA and Russia
(30-12-2016 09:19 AM)Aractus Wrote:  
(30-12-2016 05:54 AM)BnW Wrote:  When asked to comment on Murray's statements, Assange simply said he's not authorized to speak for Wikileaks. I take that as distancing himself from what Murray said. He also continues to deny that the Russians were his source but, again, he may not know if they were.

Well Murray says he received the DNC leaks personally. Sure that doesn't mean he knows anything about the Clinton-server hacks or leaks, but it does mean he knows who the source is.

Not sure about that, either. Clandestine operations are never direct - all he knows is who handed it to him. Not where it came from.

I am not really worried about an escalation here either - I am worried about what Putin and Trump are up to. Hopefully it's just some money grabs.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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30-12-2016, 10:02 AM
RE: USA and Russia
(29-12-2016 10:26 PM)Aractus Wrote:  They (the CIA) don't know shit. They're watching the Russians with their spies to see what happens when they make these allegations. If they have solid evidence they would prove it.

Not necessarily ... especially in spycraft. In that field, telling anyone everything you know is beyond foolish. You're putting sources and methods at risk in doing so.
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30-12-2016, 10:26 AM
RE: USA and Russia
(30-12-2016 09:19 AM)Aractus Wrote:  
(30-12-2016 05:54 AM)BnW Wrote:  When asked to comment on Murray's statements, Assange simply said he's not authorized to speak for Wikileaks. I take that as distancing himself from what Murray said. He also continues to deny that the Russians were his source but, again, he may not know if they were.

Well Murray says he received the DNC leaks personally. Sure that doesn't mean he knows anything about the Clinton-server hacks or leaks, but it does mean he knows who the source is.

I saw that comment by him. I was very surprised that he was willing to go on record and say he received stolen information. I was even more surprised he would leave investigators such a big clue as to how to find the leak. Unless the DNC is using a very primitive set up (which I suppose is possible), they will be able to tell who accessed information and who printed it. It wouldn't take a lot of effort to detect a big print job or download of all those emails. Although I'm a lawyer and not a technologist, I work in the technology field and I deal with these types of issues a lot. Murray basically confessed to a criminal act here, and left a massive clue as to how to find the person who stole the information. I just find him tough to believe.

I am familiar with Craig Murray and his past. I've read the press accounts of his time as the British ambassador to Uzbekistan and how he tried to expose the crimes of the Uzbekistani government when the Bush administration considered them an "alley". I am happy to believe he is trying to do the right thing here, but that doesn't mean he's being totally truthful.

Maybe he is, but if so then he has created a lot of potential issues for not only himself but whomever the supposed leak is.

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30-12-2016, 10:58 AM
RE: USA and Russia
(29-12-2016 10:05 PM)BnW Wrote:  I can't tell if Trump is really clever or just making shit up as he goes. It really feels like he's making shit up as he goes and things like taking the call from the President of Taiwan were done because he had no idea what the implications were, but who knows.
Read the ghostwriter article and I think you'll be convinced that he has no clue - so, yes making shit up as he goes.

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30-12-2016, 11:29 AM
RE: USA and Russia
Along with Julep's comments on Pukin's possible grip on Rump's short and curlies, and Dom's comment on the source of Rump's funds...

Would not surprise me to hear that Russia had hidden deals where Rump does not know he is the one dangling on a baliliaka string with the Kremlin holding the music. The whole history of Russia is threaded with strings of intrigue and deviousness that make most Western leaders look fairly honest.

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