USA as a Christian Nation Tactic
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29-11-2011, 12:17 PM
 
USA as a Christian Nation Tactic
Debates about the Christian Nation.. and a useful tactic.

When I am in a debate with a Palin/Bachmann Fundie about the “Christian Nation” argument, after I have scored points all the way around ….. it almost always ends like this….

“But it says IN THE YEAR OF OUR LORD…..SO HA! THERE YA GO”.

OK, what on earth does this prove?

My next question is designed to see how well they know they forefathers. And it’s a SIMPLE question that usually generates the same reaction.

I reply by saying simply this….

“Who’s Lord?”

They NATRUALLY assume that all the forefathers were Current Day Fundies! SO…when they find out that some of the early presidents did not even self identify as religious, and for those that did…many identified as UNITARIANS. Ask them if they even KNOW what a Unitarian is…and the core belief..then ask them is THAT the type of Christian THEY are?

Unless this person you are debating IS a Unitarian then:

As presidents go….
Jefferson’s Lord is not their lord.
John Adam’s Lord is not the same lord.
John Q Adam’s lord is not their lord.

As framers go….
Thomas Jefferson (Jefferson bible is their bible? Really? You will actually find most don’t even know about his Razor bladed version of the bible)
Thomas Paine (is The Age of Reason on any Sunday school required Reading?)
John Adams again Mr. Unitarian denying Jesus’ divinity as a god.

So the question stands….WHO’s LORD? Once THAT lord is identified as to what ever or whoever it is….is that THE SAME Lord you worship?

This normally leaves them speechless…….

Just thought I’d share this tactic with the rest of you.

D
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29-11-2011, 01:03 PM
RE: USA as a Christian Nation Tactic
Well... that AND the fact that "Year of Our Lord" is a translation of the latin term Anno Domini, aka AD. As in the BC and AD usage of the Julian and Gregorian calendars.

So using "Year of Our Lord" is about as religious as saying 212 AD. It's not the atheist's fault that we're forced to use a calendar designed by a pope.

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29-11-2011, 01:51 PM
RE: USA as a Christian Nation Tactic
However we don't record time that way anymore. We use BCE (before common era) and CE (common era) which is essentially a secularist apologetic tactic. I prefer it to a.d. and b.c. simply because it ticks of the fundies, but to me it makes no real sense either. There is no sectioning of time so far as I'm concerned. The only reason it's there is to denote the year of the christ so changing it's name does not mean anything. We should record time as one long chain of events. Anyways that's sort of off topic.

Another way to derail the argument is to point out that things like the saying in god we trust was only added to your money in 1864. Also it's only been in your pledge since 1954 and I know america is older than that. That would surprise a lot of the people who tend to argue about such things I would imagine.

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29-11-2011, 01:57 PM
RE: USA as a Christian Nation Tactic
(29-11-2011 01:51 PM)lucradis Wrote:  However we don't record time that way anymore. We use BCE (before common era) and CE (common era) which is essentially a secularist apologetic tactic. I prefer it to a.d. and b.c. simply because it ticks of the fundies, but to me it makes no real sense either. There is no sectioning of time so far as I'm concerned. The only reason it's there is to denote the year of the christ so changing it's name does not mean anything. We should record time as one long chain of events. Anyways that's sort of off topic.

Another way to derail the argument is to point out that things like the saying in god we trust was only added to your money in 1864. Also it's only been in your pledge since 1954 and I know america is older than that. That would surprise a lot of the people who tend to argue about such things I would imagine.

One big long chunk of time would make things simpler, for sure. Or we could record time in eras, using human achievements as milestones. We already do that to some degree- the bronze age, iron age, etc. But that's not typically a mainstream method of referencing the year. Plus it's just more darned complicated. Big Grin
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29-11-2011, 02:05 PM
RE: USA as a Christian Nation Tactic
I use geologic time. So any recent event (<1 million years) is 0. We all live in the Quaternary, and that is an epoch based on fossils not religious drivel. So, the next time you get into a debate with them, just talk about things in terms of geologic time.

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29-11-2011, 03:06 PM
RE: USA as a Christian Nation Tactic
I am constantly dumbfounded by the scale and multitude of fallacious arguments that people parade around every day.

As if they can prove this BS red herring argument, then that somehow also proves the real argument. Even if the Founding Fathers were the most devout Christians in history, that is not an argument for the US being a Christian Nation. It does not matter in the slightest if they were Christian, Catholic, Jews, Atheist, or even Satanist. All the REAL evidence clearly states that this country was founded on freedom of religion.
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05-12-2011, 01:13 AM (This post was last modified: 05-12-2011 01:24 AM by houseofcantor.)
RE: USA as a Christian Nation Tactic
BC about covered it, but I'm a fan of Julie - I'd prolly give 'em a, amen, brother. Hail Caesar! Cause it is fucking Julie's calendar that worked for all that time, Julie's brain that devised the calendar, and if they try that anno domini shit on me I'd tell them to fix their shit or add 1200 years to the calendar to cover Moses... you lying pricks Tongue
As a technicality, the US is Christian by percentages and the electorate sure acts like a dumb flock of sheep... but as an atheist, I'm all "give em nothing other than a kick in the teeth" with Christianity in general. Wink

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05-12-2011, 07:19 AM
RE: USA as a Christian Nation Tactic
(29-11-2011 03:06 PM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  It does not matter in the slightest if they were Christian, Catholic, Jews, Atheist, or even Satanist. All the REAL evidence clearly states that this country was founded on freedom of religion.

No, the real evidence is that the U.S.A. was founded on Enlightenment principles and freedom from religion.

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