Ukraine: The Russians are coming.
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01-03-2014, 04:22 AM (This post was last modified: 01-03-2014 04:31 AM by HU.Junyuan.)
Ukraine: The Russians are coming.
What changes will they bring ?

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Perhaps inspired by US's humanitarian interventions in Iraq (1990 2003), Afganistan (1998 2001), Sudan (1998), Pakistan (from 2002 on, by drones), Lybia (2011) and Syria (2013), Russia might decide that it will be generous as well as fashionable to offer such humanitarian help to Ukraine.

In order to get there fast enough, they, of course, drive to Ukaine's help. Em, yes, there is some armor and guns of various sizes. But since in the democracy paradise of US, many people say "what if XX had had a gun ? XX could have been prevented", guns must be an important part of democracy and hence humanitarian. It can't be wrong, right ?

Will someone of the opposition be kind enough to welcome these helpers in the middle of a road with a shopping bag in hand ? There should be, because the opposition is always good and kind and supported by the righteous US, hasn't it been ?

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U.S. warns Russia: Ukraine intervention would be 'grave mistake'
http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.577037

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01-03-2014, 05:58 AM
RE: Ukraine: The Russians are coming.
Russia does not want to lose access to its assets. It is losing political ties with a country on its borders. I imagine most countries would do the same.

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You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

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01-03-2014, 06:03 AM
RE: Ukraine: The Russians are coming.
Good luck with that.
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02-03-2014, 03:22 PM
RE: Ukraine: The Russians are coming.
Unfortunately this could get ugly.
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02-03-2014, 03:56 PM
RE: Ukraine: The Russians are coming.
Drop the attitude, nobody here thinks that the US is a "paradise for democracy."

And if you think it's bad for a country to get the US involved in its business (which it is), having Russia nosing around is even worse.

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02-03-2014, 04:13 PM
RE: Ukraine: The Russians are coming.
(02-03-2014 03:56 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Drop the attitude, nobody here thinks that the US is a "paradise for democracy."

But, Tartarus, life is so boring when you're not playing arguing with yourself straw men.

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03-03-2014, 02:53 AM
RE: Ukraine: The Russians are coming.
(02-03-2014 03:56 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Drop the attitude, nobody here thinks that the US is a "paradise for democracy."

And if you think it's bad for a country to get the US involved in its business (which it is), having Russia nosing around is even worse.

I don't have this attitude when I can exchange rational points with others. Yet there are quite a handful of right wing forum members who respectfully disagree with you. And they are always the ones who are more enthusiastic to reply to my posts.

Sorry about that.

Rolleyes

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03-03-2014, 03:28 PM
RE: Ukraine: The Russians are coming.
As always there would not be a problem if people just followed the 'live and let live' principle.

From what little I've read I understand the issue is Crimea was part of Russia (USSR) and has a large Russian population. Ever since being annexed to Ukraine, Crimea has been treated like an autonomous region. However, rather than respecting this system of local autonomous control, Ukraine passed nationwide laws to force Crimeans to do it their way, such as a ban on the use of their native language (Russian) in the government.

If they would just follow the system classic liberals came up with a couple hundred years ago there would be no conflict. Let the western regions adopt more EU-friendly policies, while the eastern region is more aligned with Russia. People can live peacefully side-by-side and not try to change the others. But, instead, just like is happening in Western countries, everybody feels their way is right and entitled to use violence to force their way on others. Now they're all battling for control over the federal government so they can beat the other side into submission.

Who knows where it will go from here, but if it escalates into another tragedy with massive bloodshed, all of it would have been avoided if they just respected local autonomous control. Ditto with Egypt, and the battle between the fundamentalists and liberals. And same thing in the US between the red vs. blue states.
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03-03-2014, 04:05 PM
RE: Ukraine: The Russians are coming.
I hope to be proven wrong but i do not believe Putin will be happy just taking the Crimea. Ukraine has been under Russian influence since the time of the Czars. He's not going to just give that up.

Curious as to what Obama does now. Putin showed Bush up over Georgia and the US did squat. Does Obama have more balls?

I, for one, hope not.

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03-03-2014, 09:04 PM
RE: Ukraine: The Russians are coming.
(03-03-2014 03:28 PM)frankksj Wrote:  As always there would not be a problem if people just followed the 'live and let live' principle.

From what little I've read I understand the issue is Crimea was part of Russia (USSR) and has a large Russian population. Ever since being annexed to Ukraine, Crimea has been treated like an autonomous region. However, rather than respecting this system of local autonomous control, Ukraine passed nationwide laws to force Crimeans to do it their way, such as a ban on the use of their native language (Russian) in the government.

If they would just follow the system classic liberals came up with a couple hundred years ago there would be no conflict. Let the western regions adopt more EU-friendly policies, while the eastern region is more aligned with Russia. People can live peacefully side-by-side and not try to change the others. But, instead, just like is happening in Western countries, everybody feels their way is right and entitled to use violence to force their way on others. Now they're all battling for control over the federal government so they can beat the other side into submission.

Who knows where it will go from here, but if it escalates into another tragedy with massive bloodshed, all of it would have been avoided if they just respected local autonomous control. Ditto with Egypt, and the battle between the fundamentalists and liberals. And same thing in the US between the red vs. blue states.

Right wing / Conservatives are short-sighted. Like what Jon Stewart said, they won't feel the pain unless they are involved and on the less-previliged side.

I am no fan of Ukraine's (former?) President. But the oppositions just show so much more stupidity.

Ukraine oppositions disbanded the Gold Eagle Special Forces for their participation in suppressing the upheaval, forced some of them to kneel and repent, resulted in many of them's joining the Crimea's side, with their weapons.

Ukraine oppositions just cut more than half of the Internal Affairs Department's pay.

Ukraine oppositions appointed a new navy minister, who together with the navy's flagship went to Crimea's side only a little longer than ... immediately ?

Ukraine oppositions have put their bet in EU's financial help and US' military intervention. I still remember the Western financial help promises the US made to the deceased USSR in exchange for its reform and what happened to Georgia.

Part of the Ukraine oppositions, the Right Sector, is soliciting help from the Chechnya muslim terrorists, right after the muslim communities in Kyiv sufferred impacts from the extreme right factions of the Ukraine opposition.

I am waiting to enjoy more of this short-sightedness of the Ukraine oppositions, with no offense intended to the sufferings of the Ukraine people. Sigh, a laugh at the more apparent culprit is about much what an ordinary foreign bystander can do, isn't it ?

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