Ultimate "who has the burden of proof" argument
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28-12-2013, 05:17 AM
Ultimate "who has the burden of proof" argument
Exchange between me and a theist who decided to ruin my Sunday afternoon by trying to convert me.

Theist: Why should I have the burden of proof?

Me: Because you are the one trying to convince me. I don't give a damn what you believe. Rolleyes

Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice Is also great
And would suffice. -- Robert Frost
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28-12-2013, 08:08 AM
RE: Ultimate "who has the burden of proof" argument
...and their response?

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28-12-2013, 08:26 AM
RE: Ultimate "who has the burden of proof" argument
And what is so "ultimate" about this?

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29-12-2013, 07:23 AM
RE: Ultimate "who has the burden of proof" argument
Just explain to them that they are asserting something, so they have to prove it. Explain how this works in with modern criminal justice systems, in that the prosecution asserts guilt and must prove it. Tell them why this is different than arresting someone, jailing them, and leaving them there until they prove their innocence.

Just make sure not to make any assertions that you yourself cannot back up (there are no gods/God doesn't exist). If you avoid that, you're good.
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29-12-2013, 07:39 PM
RE: Ultimate "who has the burden of proof" argument
(28-12-2013 08:08 AM)Jeffasaurus Wrote:  ...and their response?
He gave up trying to convert me.

(28-12-2013 08:26 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  And what is so "ultimate" about this?
It worked.

Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice Is also great
And would suffice. -- Robert Frost
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29-12-2013, 07:46 PM
RE: Ultimate "who has the burden of proof" argument
(29-12-2013 07:23 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Just make sure not to make any assertions that you yourself cannot back up (there are no gods/God doesn't exist). If you avoid that, you're good.
Whenever anyone plays the "You can't prove God doesn't exist" card my response is "Of course, I'm an agnostic, not an atheist." Saves a lot of time. That said, I'm a 6 on Dawkins' seven point scale, right alongside Richard himself.

Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice Is also great
And would suffice. -- Robert Frost
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30-12-2013, 08:00 AM
RE: Ultimate "who has the burden of proof" argument
(29-12-2013 07:46 PM)f stop Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 07:23 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Just make sure not to make any assertions that you yourself cannot back up (there are no gods/God doesn't exist). If you avoid that, you're good.
Whenever anyone plays the "You can't prove God doesn't exist" card my response is "Of course, I'm an agnostic, not an atheist." Saves a lot of time. That said, I'm a 6 on Dawkins' seven point scale, right alongside Richard himself.

Prof. Dawkins has recently said he's more like 6.9 on the scale.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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31-12-2013, 01:05 PM
RE: Ultimate "who has the burden of proof" argument
The one who's MAKING the claim is the one who truly has the burden of proof.

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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31-12-2013, 03:28 PM
RE: Ultimate "who has the burden of proof" argument
(29-12-2013 07:46 PM)f stop Wrote:  Whenever anyone plays the "You can't prove God doesn't exist" card my response is "Of course, I'm an agnostic, not an atheist." Saves a lot of time. That said, I'm a 6 on Dawkins' seven point scale, right alongside Richard himself.

Groan. Dawkins is such a pseudointellectual. "Scales of atheism", jesus christ. Agnostics are just as annoying as the religious.

You either believe in magic or you don't. It's very binary. And there's no evidence for magic having existed or can.
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31-12-2013, 07:37 PM
RE: Ultimate "who has the burden of proof" argument
Dawkins would of course say that he is a 6.9, as do I.

7, Strong Atheist (I am 100% sure there is no God)
This suggests 100% knowledge of something. The only one who would dare to make such a claim would be God himself. Or perhaps Pat Roberston.

"Which is more likely: that the whole natural order is suspended, or that a jewish minx should tell a lie?"- David Hume
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