Um ... what do you think of this human right report, I wonder
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01-03-2014, 05:54 PM
RE: Um ... what do you think of this human right report, I wonder
(01-03-2014 05:15 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  You realize it is not just the United States that thinks China's Human Rights record is hilariously pathetic, right?

(01-03-2014 03:54 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Stop shilling for your authoritarian state and open your eyes man. Do you not even understand what "Human Rights" mean?

One of the most basic human rights a country grants to its citizens is the right to flee if they find their countries rules too oppressive. This is, after all, the very definition of freedom. What determines a slave vs. a free man is that the free man participates in the system voluntarily, whereas a slave is considered to have obligations to his master that he cannot escape.

There are only 3 countries in the world that violate this most basic human right: North Korea, Cuba and the United States. Sure, China has a repressive government, and I don't want to live there. But, if a Chinese person doesn't like it, he is free to leave--no strings attached. Once he moves out of China he has no further obligations to the Chinese government. He doesn't have to report his activities to China. He doesn't to let China know where he is living. He doesn't have to send money back to China. China won't send agents to bring him back to China.

By contrast, if you were born in the US, you are obligated to the US for life, whether you ever set foot on US soil, unless you go through a complex process of renouncing your citizenship, which often carries significant penalties and costs, and can leave one a stateless refugee. If an American citizen lives abroad he is required for life to report everything he does to the US, supply copies of all his bank statements and credit card statements to the US, report to the US where is living, and if he tries to escape, the US uses strong-arm tactics to arrest and extradite US citizens abroad.

For example, Bobby Fischer, the chess champion, fled the US, never to return again. If he were born in any other country, including China, he'd have been freed of all his duties, and could live anywhere he wanted and do anything he wanted. However, because he was born in the US, he was given a list of countries he could and could not visit. When he won a chess championship in Yugoslavia the US pressured Japan, his new home where he was married to a Japanese wife, to arrest him and extradite him for (a) going to a country that was not on the US's "allowed" list, and (b) not sending the money from his chess winnings back to the US. Iceland's parliament held a special session and granted him instant Icelandic citizenship so they could use international law to get him sent to Iceland instead, where he was given his freedom.

This is in direct violation of freedom of mobility; a basic human right according to the UN. The US was condemned for not respecting basic human rights and refusing to ratify the conventions. The chart is here. Virtually the whole world, including China, was willing to honor the UN conventions.

China has a bad record on human rights, and plenty of European countries can rightly chastise China for it. But when the US does, imo, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
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01-03-2014, 06:21 PM
RE: Um ... what do you think of this human right report, I wonder
(01-03-2014 08:27 AM)Chas Wrote:  
Quote:-- In 2013, 137 people died in 30 mass killings, which caused four or more deaths each, in the U.S.. A shooting rampage in the headquarters of the Naval Sea Systems Command in Washington, D.C. left 12 people dead.

The report lost all credibility right there. This is not an example of a country's 'human rights violation'.
One can only conclude that the authors do not understand the meaning of 'human rights violation'.

The report lists hundreds of US human rights abuses, many of which are valid and universally condemned, like the NSA spying.

So, rather than reading it with an open mind, you find one point that is weak, and use that as an excuse to dismiss the entire report as having 'lost all credibility'.

Nobody can improve with that mentality. Say you own a car company and you get a scathing report listing hundreds of serious defects in your car. So you skim the report and when you find for one criticism that isn't particularly strong, you use that as an excuse to throw the report in the trash, dismiss all the valid criticisms, and convince yourself that you make the best cars in the world. With that attitude you'll make terrible cars and never improve. Same thing with a country. A real patriot would read the report with an open mind, acknowledge the points that are valid, and suggest improvements.
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01-03-2014, 07:41 PM
RE: Um ... what do you think of this human right report, I wonder
(01-03-2014 08:17 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  All of it exists but the "worlds judge of human rights" point is overinflated.

No country with immense size or government population is going to stand up well to a human rights report.

Glad you said that.

There's a saying in China, that you will see various sorts of persons when there are over 100 of them.

Want something? Then do something.
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01-03-2014, 07:54 PM
RE: Um ... what do you think of this human right report, I wonder
(01-03-2014 06:21 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(01-03-2014 08:27 AM)Chas Wrote:  The report lost all credibility right there. This is not an example of a country's 'human rights violation'.
One can only conclude that the authors do not understand the meaning of 'human rights violation'.

The report lists hundreds of US human rights abuses, many of which are valid and universally condemned, like the NSA spying.

So, rather than reading it with an open mind, you find one point that is weak, and use that as an excuse to dismiss the entire report as having 'lost all credibility'.

Nobody can improve with that mentality. Say you own a car company and you get a scathing report listing hundreds of serious defects in your car. So you skim the report and when you find for one criticism that isn't particularly strong, you use that as an excuse to throw the report in the trash, dismiss all the valid criticisms, and convince yourself that you make the best cars in the world. With that attitude you'll make terrible cars and never improve. Same thing with a country. A real patriot would read the report with an open mind, acknowledge the points that are valid, and suggest improvements.

It was the very first example. That is not credible.

"Real patriot"? I'm not an American. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-03-2014, 10:33 AM
RE: Um ... what do you think of this human right report, I wonder
(01-03-2014 07:54 PM)Chas Wrote:  It was the very first example. That is not credible.

The US submits a report of China's human rights violations. You (rightly so) criticize China for looking for any excuse to ignore the report and not address the issues. Then when the roles are reversed and China submits a report detailing many egregious US human rights violation, you do precisely what you just criticized China for doing.

If only people could see their own faults as clearly as they see those of others.
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03-03-2014, 08:53 AM
RE: Um ... what do you think of this human right report, I wonder
I guess if the US is blamed for the killings then so should China for the horrific attacks in the China train station over the weekend.

HU - I notice in several of your posts that you single out "right wing". Could you please help me understand what "right wing" positions you have a problem with and why you believe that only the "right wing" holds them?
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03-03-2014, 08:54 AM
RE: Um ... what do you think of this human right report, I wonder
(03-03-2014 08:53 AM)devilsadvoc8 Wrote:  I guess if the US is blamed for the killings then so should China for the horrific attacks in the China train station over the weekend.

HU - I notice in several of your posts that you single out "right wing". Could you please help me understand what "right wing" positions you have a problem with and why you believe that only the "right wing" holds them?

Apparently anybody further to the right of the political spectrum than him.

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03-03-2014, 08:56 AM
RE: Um ... what do you think of this human right report, I wonder
(03-03-2014 08:54 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(03-03-2014 08:53 AM)devilsadvoc8 Wrote:  I guess if the US is blamed for the killings then so should China for the horrific attacks in the China train station over the weekend.

HU - I notice in several of your posts that you single out "right wing". Could you please help me understand what "right wing" positions you have a problem with and why you believe that only the "right wing" holds them?

Apparently anybody further to the right of the political spectrum than him.

So everyone then?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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03-03-2014, 08:57 AM
RE: Um ... what do you think of this human right report, I wonder
(03-03-2014 08:56 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  So everyone then?

Even Marx Wink

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03-03-2014, 08:58 AM
RE: Um ... what do you think of this human right report, I wonder
(03-03-2014 08:57 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(03-03-2014 08:56 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  So everyone then?

Even Marx Wink

Yes, Marx is to the right of Hu here.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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