Um ... what do you think of this human right report, I wonder
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03-03-2014, 03:28 PM
RE: Um ... what do you think of this human right report, I wonder
(03-03-2014 02:48 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(03-03-2014 02:25 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Dare I say... citation needed?

Do you have Alzheimer? I just included the citation in the last post.

No, you re-affirmed your misinterpretation.

(03-03-2014 02:48 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Chas wrote: "The report lost all credibility right there".

You paraphrased this and claimed Chas actually said: "Some of those items are specious".

Yes. That is what he said. The very first item is specious. Thus the report is not a credible source.

(notwithstanding that the 'as always' requires more than a single data point)

(03-03-2014 02:48 PM)frankksj Wrote:  That some means that you claimed Chas acknowledged other items were NOT specious.

That's not what words mean. He made no comment as to other items.

(03-03-2014 02:48 PM)frankksj Wrote:  That's totally wrong. Chas did no such thing. He ended his post after pointing out ONE invalid item and saying the whole report lost credibility.

He made no comment as to other items. A list with specious entries is not credible.

Do you know his opinion on any of the other things you have in mind? Wait. You've probably convinced yourself that you do. Rather, did he state any other opinions in this thread for you to respond to? No.

"Omission is the same as approval" is a highly deranged attitude, but okay.

Then I guess you got tired of defending your mischaracterisation, because you proceed to this odd digression...

(03-03-2014 02:48 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Sure, it's ridiculous for a country like China to condemn others for human rights violations. BUT, it's also pretty ridiculous for a country like the US to do so. The US is the only developed country I'm aware of that no longer has habbeus corpus--something that has been the foundation of a modern judicial system for a thousand years. Only the US locks people up without access to a lawyer or judicial process. Only the US summarily executes its own citizens without even accusing them of any crimes, based solely on a secret kill order from its leader. The US has been hunting down a legitimate whistleblower whose whose only "crime" was exposing rampant illegal corruption, and has even threatened journalists for reporting these. The US is also the only country sending drones into other countries to attack their people. The US has an ex-stoner President that locks up and kills people whose only crime is following in his footsteps and making the same bad decisions he did.

China has a bad human rights record when it comes to the way it treats its own people. However, the US has a horrific human rights record when it comes to dealing with other countries. For decades the US has been overthrowing peaceful democracies to put in power tyrannical dictators that let the US plunder the country.

Your point?

No one besides you brought up hypocrisy, for one. That is a highly strident and reductive account, for two.

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03-03-2014, 03:30 PM
RE: Um ... what do you think of this human right report, I wonder
(03-03-2014 03:25 PM)BnW Wrote:  Sorry, some smart phone auto correct and auto chose issues in that post. Hopefully you can follow.

I'm just glad I'm not the only one autocorrect hates Big Grin


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03-03-2014, 03:33 PM
RE: Um ... what do you think of this human right report, I wonder
(03-03-2014 03:24 PM)BnW Wrote:  Are you going to deny those things or claim they are ok because you don't like the person who pointed them out?

God, not you too...

Please let me know if you think anyone has denied or endorsed those things.

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03-03-2014, 03:36 PM
RE: Um ... what do you think of this human right report, I wonder
I didn't say that. I did i agree with Franks list of complaints about the US. I got a response along the lines of "how can you agree with him?!". I simply pointed out how i can agree with him and the implications of not agreeing with his point.

And, while doing so, i also made a while bunch of phone related typos.

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03-03-2014, 03:39 PM
RE: Um ... what do you think of this human right report, I wonder
(03-03-2014 03:36 PM)BnW Wrote:  I didn't say that. I did i agree with Franks list of complaints about the US. I got a response along the lines of "how can you agree with him?!". I simply pointed out how i can agree with him and the implications of not agreeing with his point.

And, while doing so, i also made a while bunch of phone related typos.

Quite.

But Rev was joking, which I guess didn't come across.

(I also blame his lack of Rolleyes )

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03-03-2014, 03:53 PM
RE: Um ... what do you think of this human right report, I wonder
Oh.

Well, that's completely different.

Never mind.

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03-03-2014, 08:15 PM (This post was last modified: 03-03-2014 08:30 PM by HU.Junyuan.)
RE: Um ... what do you think of this human right report, I wonder
(03-03-2014 08:53 AM)devilsadvoc8 Wrote:  I guess if the US is blamed for the killings then so should China for the horrific attacks in the China train station over the weekend.

HU - I notice in several of your posts that you single out "right wing". Could you please help me understand what "right wing" positions you have a problem with and why you believe that only the "right wing" holds them?

An example,

Left wing, or at least me: I like the US when it stops being a hypocrite. I like US people when I can exchange interesting information with them. I like using the English language. But as a foreigner, I really can't do much about their human rights issues, and that's how much I care about this report, as I said, I am not an enthusiastic reader in the OP. If I was an American and I saw this thread from a Chinese, I would NOT be much interested in it and my reply would most likely be a cold "Haha".

Right wing, or at least some forum members I've met with: They turn emotional when they talk about China, like Chas, when he thinks the gun pandemic in US is not a human rights problem, then the report "losses all credibility". They talk about human rights issues in China seriously, they have no interest in the well-being of the Chinese people (there's a few posts when Earmuffs said things like hell with the Chinese people, and there hasn't been a single time when those right wing fellasnever expressed sympathy for Chinese people when there was a natural disaster or terrorist attack), and they think it is logically sound.

Have I answered your question ? Or did you ask it out of emotion rather than ration ?

And by the way, I do think the Kunming massacre is a big human rights thing. And I strongly support confiscate blade from Uygurs, Tibetans and other minority groups no matter what they say about their ethnic group traditions and such. The Han Chinese are not allowed to keep such lethal weapons. It is a brazen violation of equality among ethnic groups to massively allow Uygurs and Tibetans to have those and entitle to carry those around freely.

And look, did the right wing guys have any sympathy for those brutally bladed down ?

Although I don't feel comfortable about it, I might call it a senseless use of planes, pressure cookers, etc. when something similar happens to their neighbourhood. One final note for you, I am NOT an enthusiastic reader of reports of such kind, from either country, and I am NOT very much concerned about the human rights issues in the US either.

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03-03-2014, 11:57 PM
RE: Um ... what do you think of this human right report, I wonder
(03-03-2014 08:15 PM)HU.Junyuan Wrote:  And by the way, I do think the Kunming massacre is a big human rights thing. And I strongly support confiscate blade from Uygurs, Tibetans and other minority groups no matter what they say about their ethnic group traditions and such. The Han Chinese are not allowed to keep such lethal weapons. It is a brazen violation of equality among ethnic groups to massively allow Uygurs and Tibetans to have those and entitle to carry those around freely.

And look, did the right wing guys have any sympathy for those brutally bladed down ?

Although I don't feel comfortable about it, I might call it a senseless use of planes, pressure cookers, etc. when something similar happens to their neighbourhood. One final note for you, I am NOT an enthusiastic reader of reports of such kind, from either country, and I am NOT very much concerned about the human rights issues in the US either.

I think... the issue with the Chinese report on the knife killing for example, is that there is no free press in China (this was the thrust of my question to you earlier, I worded it badly but I wanted to know if you thought that in fact the press in China is free?), or at least in the West the prevailing idea is that the Chinese press is not free to report stuff which makes the state look bad.

So when we have a report about a minority group knifing a huge bunch of people at a station (which kinda sounds a bit absurd, but yes, humans are that crazy, so maybe not), the... instinctive thought is that the Chinese authorities are covering up something. Maybe for example, there was a large crowd of people protesting something and the authorities sent in a bunch of nasty people to kill them and make a very public example of them? Because we have no independent way of confirming what your government *says* happpened, it tends to make us reluctant to just accept it at face value.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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04-03-2014, 01:00 AM (This post was last modified: 04-03-2014 01:22 AM by HU.Junyuan.)
RE: Um ... what do you think of this human right report, I wonder
(03-03-2014 11:57 PM)morondog Wrote:  I think... the issue with the Chinese report on the knife killing for example, is that there is no free press in China (this was the thrust of my question to you earlier, I worded it badly but I wanted to know if you thought that in fact the press in China is free?), or at least in the West the prevailing idea is that the Chinese press is not free to report stuff which makes the state look bad.

So when we have a report about a minority group knifing a huge bunch of people at a station (which kinda sounds a bit absurd, but yes, humans are that crazy, so maybe not), the... instinctive thought is that the Chinese authorities are covering up something. Maybe for example, there was a large crowd of people protesting something and the authorities sent in a bunch of nasty people to kill them and make a very public example of them? Because we have no independent way of confirming what your government *says* happpened, it tends to make us reluctant to just accept it at face value.

I know that kind of thinking, which, as you said, is a major way of thinking about China. Distrust it is, which I was once pretty willing to clarify about, driven by a passion to cleanse the name of my motherland, which now I have little interest to do unless I can exchange information with a few rational people, like you. To be candid, I now PREFER it that a lot of Westerners misunderstand and underestimate China as a collapsing, doomed backward authoritarian power. This is something that really helps, or at least it has been so for the past 23 years after the collapse of the USSR.

You didn't word the question badly. I understood it and answered. Here I have some updates.

I now check the news on the portal website 163 today, and I get these: [1] When a journalist asked about the existence of a major or even unprecedented corruption case of a retired Political Bureau member, the spokesman said with a smile "the resolution of the government and the party to counter corruption is not idle talk. I am only authorized to say this. You understand", [2] news about that retired PB member's son, his lavishly refurbishing the family graveyard, which is considered strongly against a CPC member's belief and hint for corruption, [3] a provincial mamager of a state-owned oil giant, PetroChina, is under investigation of a corruption case, [4] the Mayor of Dongguan, the illigal sex-related industry of which place was believed to be over 8.5 billion dollars a year, where 6000 policemen raided the suspected entertainment business places one month ago, evaded journalists' sharp questions about local economy transformation at the NPC & CPCC meetings which he was attending. etc ...

I am not a fundamentalist believer of a free press thing and I am not going to evaluate it in simple terms as free or not. You can judge it yourself. As for the rest (majorly conservatives), I now have little interest to know what they think or how they feel unless I occasionally want to provoke them for fun, which is bad taste, I know and feel sorry about it.

Despite having no "indepedent" way to verify the situation or at least the fact that a serious one could have been conducted so fast, the State Department of the US call the Kunming Incident a terrorist attack on May 3rd, not the "senseless violence" it considered on May 2nd, and definitely not "still evaluating" as what they did last time when a suicide bomber vehicle attacked civilians on the Tiananmen Square a year ago. What do you think ? Should I feel grateful about this at face value, like what I did to Chas, Earmuffs, Re*****77x, BryanS and etc., when I sincerely thanked them for concerning the human rights of Chinese people at the beginning of the conversation that later turned into my fight against their hypocracy ?

No. I think it is the Russians who might actually have helped a little (they sent batches of army into Ukraine on May 2nd and 3rd).

Ah, praise it, that there's no permanent enemy, but permanent interest.

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04-03-2014, 07:36 AM
RE: Um ... what do you think of this human right report, I wonder
Sorry HU, you didn't answer my question well. You appear to label open minded with left wing and closed minded with right wing which is a false association. There are plenty of leftwingers that refuse to acknowledge points made by the middle and right and vice versa. Rarely are you able to bucket anyone so completely and cleanly. For example I have a mixture of opinions that lean to the left and to the right.


Do you really mean right and left wing or do you mean a state of mind? I suggest you address the topic without labeling the person.

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