Um, where is....
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25-12-2014, 11:55 AM
RE: Um, where is....
(25-12-2014 11:41 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Seriously, Bozo, I'm enjoying your posts at a couple of levels. You are eloquent and self-effacing ... in an arrogant kinda way. What's not to like about that?

Well thank you. I strive imperfectly to be authentic as a writer, and because I am both eloquent (only in print, not in person) and quite often arrogant (on a limited number of topics) I try to show it l like it is.

Quote:But unfogged is right. We've heard this tune already.

What tune? Please specify, thanks.

If you mean my main thesis so far, I've yet to see a single poster even attempt to prove that reason is qualified to develop credible answers on gods. I'm becoming fairly sure not a one of you has heard this challenge before, or you'd have some kind of snappy reply prepared, and the reality seems to be.... you have nothing.

Quote:TTA is many things to many people... yet, officially, it is primarily a community and in part a sanctuary. It's your local bar "where everybody knows your name".

Um, it's actually a bar where nobody knows anybody's name, but ok, I'm quibbling, please continue....

Quote:Secondarily, it is a place for discussion. Yes, for some, this is the main reason why they keep coming back.

As you can see, I am attempting to reason, and discuss. The problem I see is that my reasoning and discussing is inconvenient for the group consensus.

Quote:Thing is... and maybe you can learn something from even Gordon... all of the latter and none of the former will see you quickly categorised as such by your readership, many of whom will cease to be such because debate... and certainly, the same repeated debate... is not what twiddles their knobs.

Nobody is obligated to read my posts, agree of course. If you all wish to run from these challenges back in to the cozy comfort of a memorized group consensus that revolves around persuading each other of your fantasy superiority over theists, you have every right to so. I'm just inviting you to try something else for a change.

Could I remind readers of the ignore function in the control panel? I'm using it, it comes in handy. If you don't like my posts for any reason, please feel free to ignore me with my blessings, no offense taken.
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25-12-2014, 11:57 AM
RE: Um, where is....
(25-12-2014 11:45 AM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  
(25-12-2014 11:30 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Atheism is a lack of belief in the existence of gods.

What is the lack of belief built upon? Where does it come from? What is it's source?

That response doesn't even make sense. How can a lack of belief be built upon anything? How can it come from anything? How can it have a source?

Lack of belief is a default state of being. Lack of belief persists because of lack of evidence. Lack of belief can occur when belief previously existed but stopped because it was contrary to things that we know are true.


(25-12-2014 11:45 AM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  
(25-12-2014 11:30 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  To challenge that all you have to do is critically examine the evidence whether each god exists.

First you have to prove that "critically examining" is a reliable method for coming to conclusions on the topic of gods.

What other method has shown itself to be reliable and consistently useful?

Look around you at the modern world created by the scientific method. That is more tangible evidence for its usefulness than any alternative that you can propose.




(25-12-2014 11:45 AM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  My posts will stop offering the same challenge when somebody meets that challenge by proving that your chosen authority, human reason, is qualified for the job at hand.

The very concept of an 'authority' is a particularly theistic way of thinking whereas scientists and critical thinkers rely on reproducible evidence.

The very means by which we are communicating over the Internet is testament to the scientific method.
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25-12-2014, 12:00 PM
RE: Um, where is....
These types of threads are similar to the sitcoms that used to be on TV that basically followed the same story lines just with different players.

We have seen this show before, again, and again, and again.

But to put it simply - this is an atheist forum. All are welcome, theist and non alike. What's not welcome are people who come here to insult atheists in general. If we are nothing else we are all different on most levels. Generalizations from non-atheists about who and what atheists are isn't going to be met with open arms.

If any of us feel the need to return to religion or to go there for the first time, the options are everywhere.

It would be good to test the waters before diving in and flooding the place with what you think we need to hear.

There will be some who are going to back you no matter what - it's what they do. But overall, we have heard the song you sing so many times a lot of us are sick of it.

If you want to be a member that others are interested in some give and take with, remember the first rule of the forum - Don't be a dick.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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25-12-2014, 12:03 PM
RE: Um, where is....
(25-12-2014 11:55 AM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  If you mean my main thesis so far, I've yet to see a single poster even attempt to prove that reason is qualified to develop credible answers on gods. I'm becoming fairly sure not a one of you has heard this challenge before, or you'd have some kind of snappy reply prepared, and the reality seems to be.... you have nothing.

Ironically it is normally the theists who base their whole argument on reason or logic. They first claim that the existence of absolute logic and then use some flawed logic to 'prove' the existence of their god.

The reason it is flawed is two fold. They normally think in black and white and do not appreciate that the world is a made up of myriad shades of grey. Secondly they dismiss the role of evidence.

Whether it's reasoning or a computer programming, if you put garbage in then you get garbage out. Evidence is the first step. Only then can you have something to reason with.

So the answer is the same for you. There is no reproducible evidence of the existence of your god.
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25-12-2014, 12:16 PM (This post was last modified: 25-12-2014 12:34 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Um, where is....
All there is to be said about Baba Bozo and ALL his ideas are entirely encapsulated and summed in his perfectly chosen name.

The posts are entirely "bababababababa".
And he's a bozo.

Bowing

To quote THE most intelligent thing this bozo keeps saying :
"ummm"

oh, and, "Doesn't atheism explicitly or implicitly propose reason as an alternative to religion? Isn't reason the foundation upon which "lack of belief" is built?"

Wrongo. Turd brain.
The ONLY thing atheists have in common is their dismissal of the notion that there are any gods.

Repeatedly in these threads there is found the idea that reason is neseccary, but not sufficient. The universe has been proven to be non-intuitive. Besides reason, you ALSO MUST have
*evidence*
.

Since there is no
*evidence*
you have anything between your ears, please do as Angie says, and find the door, or at least sit your dumb little butt down and STFU. K ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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25-12-2014, 12:26 PM
RE: Um, where is....
[Image: orig-11727721_zpsdousxru8.jpg]
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25-12-2014, 12:45 PM
RE: Um, where is....
Quote:That response doesn't even make sense. How can a lack of belief be built upon anything? How can it come from anything? How can it have a source?

You don't believe that I am a world leading holy man. Why? You've examined the evidence of my posts, and based on that evidence concluded I ain't all that holy. Good job! :-)

Your lack of belief in my holy man status is based on your use of reason.

I've offered no proof of holiness, and so you reasonably reject any claim I might make to be a holy man.

By the same process you decline god claims. You use reason to examine the claims, you find them lacking and then, you have a lack of belief.

You might then go on to write 25 books filled with arguments to support your lack of belief. And all those arguments, as sophisticated as they may be, rest upon a belief that human reason is qualified to meaningfully analyze the question.

And if that should prove not to be true, the whole house of conceptual cards will come tumbling down. So before you spend a lifetime building a huge house of arguments, you might want to be really sure about the foundation.

This is very simple. If holy books can not be proven to be authoritative and qualified on the subjects they address, then there's no point in having endless discussion of this Bible passage and that Bible passage etc, right?

Isn't this exactly what you do in regards to the Bible? You don't accept the authority of the Bible, because it hasn't been proven, and so theist arguments based on Bible passages are dismissed.

That's exactly what I'm doing in regards to another chosen authority, human reason. Until someone proves the qualifications of human reason to be authoritative on this set of questions, all the very many atheist arguments based on reason, swept aside, dismissed.

All I'm asking readers to do is be loyal to their own principles, and challenge their own chosen authority in the very same way, with the very same rigor and vigor, that they reasonably challenge theist authorities.

We completely agree on the value of that challenging process. All that's left is for you to loyally use this reasoning process which you already believe in.

Quote:What other method has shown itself to be reliable and consistently useful? Look around you at the modern world created by the scientific method. That is more tangible evidence for its usefulness than any alternative that you can propose.

This is a very common and very understandable logical error. The fact that reason is extremely useful for very many things does not automatically equal it being useful for everything. You're making an unwarranted and unexamined leap from one to the other.

Quote:The very concept of an 'authority' is a particularly theistic way of thinking whereas scientists and critical thinkers rely on reproducible evidence.

Scientists and critical thinkers use reason as their chosen authority. I'm not asking readers to do anything else. I'm just asking you to apply that critical thinking to everything, not just the other fellow's belief system. Apply it to your belief system too. Then you'll know you really believe in reason.
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25-12-2014, 12:46 PM
RE: Um, where is....
(25-12-2014 11:55 AM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  ...
I'm becoming fairly sure not a one of you has heard this challenge before,

Check out this guy. Same stance, roughly the tactics. Same ennui ensued.

(25-12-2014 11:55 AM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  ...
the group consensus.
..
If you all ... memorized group consensus
...

I'm wondering if there is a clinical name for the condition of thinking that everyone else one meets, knows or is aware of is of the same mindset?

It happens so often here that it must be a recognised thing. Does anyone know? Mark F, DocSceptic anyone?

Cheers.

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25-12-2014, 12:49 PM
RE: Um, where is....
Bozo, it appears obvious that you are doing a whole lot of this...

[Image: 15ow0n5.gif]

'Cause it's obvious you are not hearing anyone.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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25-12-2014, 01:04 PM
RE: Um, where is....
(25-12-2014 12:46 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Check out this guy. Same stance, roughly the tactics. Same ennui ensued.

Could you please summarize this guys main thesis in a few sentences? This will help me understand if you know what my thesis is. Thanks.

If it turns out his thesis is the same as mine, that's fine no problem, could you please summarize your arguments against his thesis?

Could you show how those arguments have been responded to and debunked with careful reason, and not just the flood of emotion driven nothing that is clogging my threads?

What I'm seeing from here is that some of you wish to assert my points are boring and obviously wrong etc, but you don't seem to be able to do anything other than assert that.

Prove me wrong please, thanks!
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