Um, where is....
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25-12-2014, 01:06 PM
RE: Um, where is....
(25-12-2014 12:03 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  There is no reproducible evidence of the existence of your god.

I don't have a god, and haven't claimed one in any of my posts, so thanks for misunderstanding everything I've tried to say.

Oh well, Rome wasn't built in a day. Patience dear Bozoman me, patience.
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25-12-2014, 01:08 PM
RE: Um, where is....
(25-12-2014 01:04 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  
(25-12-2014 12:46 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Check out this guy. Same stance, roughly the tactics. Same ennui ensued.

Could you please summarize this guys main thesis in a few sentences? This will help me understand if you know what my thesis is. Thanks.

If it turns out his thesis is the same as mine, that's fine no problem, could you please summarize your arguments against his thesis?

Could you show how those arguments have been responded to and debunked with careful reason, and not just the flood of emotion driven nothing that is clogging my threads?

What I'm seeing from here is that some of you wish to assert my points are boring and obviously wrong etc, but you don't seem to be able to do anything other than assert that.

Prove me wrong please, thanks!

You are able to read for yourself, aren't you. We aren't here to serve you.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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25-12-2014, 01:17 PM
RE: Um, where is....
(25-12-2014 01:04 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  What I'm seeing from here is that some of you wish to assert my points are boring and obviously wrong etc, but you don't seem to be able to do anything other than assert that.

Prove me wrong please, thanks!

Oh. You have "points". Really ? I hadn't noticed any.
What exactly do you think those are ? We'll shoot 'em down fer ya, in a flash.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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25-12-2014, 01:28 PM
RE: Um, where is....
(25-12-2014 01:04 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  
(25-12-2014 12:46 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Check out this guy. Same stance, roughly the tactics. Same ennui ensued.

Could you please summarize this guys main thesis in a few sentences? This will help me understand if you know what my thesis is. Thanks.

If it turns out his thesis is the same as mine, that's fine no problem, could you please summarize your arguments against his thesis?

Could you show how those arguments have been responded to and debunked with careful reason, and not just the flood of emotion driven nothing that is clogging my threads?

What I'm seeing from here is that some of you wish to assert my points are boring and obviously wrong etc, but you don't seem to be able to do anything other than assert that.

Prove me wrong please, thanks!

At 3:25am on Boxing Day?

No.

I can't.

I'm barely conscious enough to find the damn condoms I packed in that place I knew would be the easiest place to find them when I needed them.

Angry

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25-12-2014, 01:32 PM
RE: Um, where is....
(25-12-2014 01:17 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(25-12-2014 01:04 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  What I'm seeing from here is that some of you wish to assert my points are boring and obviously wrong etc, but you don't seem to be able to do anything other than assert that.

Prove me wrong please, thanks!

Oh. You have "points". Really ? I hadn't noticed any.
What exactly do you think those are ? We'll shoot 'em down fer ya, in a flash.

Maybe he could put together a short summary so we won't need to bother looking them up for ourselves.
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25-12-2014, 01:33 PM
RE: Um, where is....
(25-12-2014 11:45 AM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  My posts will stop offering the same challenge when somebody meets that challenge by proving that your chosen authority, human reason, is qualified for the job at hand.

I'll give it one more try...

You are arguing against something that isn't being claimed. Reason can't prove reason and can't prove that there are no questions that reason can't answer. Big whoop. That's pretty much a given.

We use reason because it has proven itself to be a reliable way to determine what is real. That does NOT mean we expect that it can be used to answer any question. It means that it is the best tool we have discovered so far. We recognize that it is built on axioms and that it can be misapplied so all conclusions are tentative. We don't abandon reason as a tool because it can't be shown to be perfect. There aren't many perfect tools.

I doubt many people here would claim that answers found by reason are absolute or can't be overturned by new evidence. I doubt many would say that if a better method were found for determining "truth" (either in general or in a specific case) that they would not adopt that method. No such method has been found yet. The only real alternatives offered are faith which can be shown to prove anything at all which means it is useless or a zen-like refusal to even consider the question which ultimately leads nowhere.

When it comes to god claims, there is a reason that just about every reply you've gotten on the subject says that the person doesn't believe or doesn't accept that claim but that they also don't claim to know that god doesn't exist. That statement is based on the knowledge that the evidence is incomplete and that our reasoning can be fallible or that things have been set up (intentionally or not) to deceive us. We do the best we can with the tools we have. That means using reason and evidence and, for me anyway, that leads to not believing god claims.

You seem to be arguing for a Huxley-style agnosticism; that we can't KNOW the answer to the god question so we have to just leave it at "I don't know". If that works for you, go for it. I don't think that is an invalid position to take. I'm curious to find out if we CAN find any evidence to support the claim so I'm evaluating whatever the theists throw at me using the only tool I have that I have any confidence (not faith) in: reason. That doesn't mean I'm not aware of the limitations of reason in general and my ability to apply it specifically. Where I end up on the question is "I don't know" which seems to be what you want me to conclude in the first place. The only difference is that I add "I haven't found any reason to accept the claim, nor have I found any proof that it is false".

For me, and I think for most atheists, the statement "I do not believe X" is just another way of saying "I do not accept the claim that X is true". It is not the same as "I accept the claim that X is not true"; if I wanted to say that I'd say "I believe not-X". On the god claims I use reason to evaluate specific claims because that is what I have to work with. I fully understand and accept that reason may never be able to determine the answer one way or the other.

If you want to call that having faith in reason well bless your little heart. I have trust in reason based on experience; I have confidence in reason based on empirical evidence that it usually works; I do understand the limitations and I do not have unwarranted or unrealistic expectations of what it can do given limited evidence and human fallibility.

As an aside, my confidence level that you are actually a theist troll continues to edge upwards. Only somebody who lives by faith is likely to be so blind to the difference between faith and trust.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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25-12-2014, 11:03 PM
RE: Um, where is....
(25-12-2014 11:45 AM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  My posts will stop offering the same challenge when somebody meets that challenge by proving that your chosen authority, human reason, is qualified for the job at hand.

If an entity exists and if that entity is beyond the scope of human reason then any discussion of said entity is without merit. Neither you nor I nor anybody else will ever know if such an entity even exists, much less whether it is the Creator or the Destroyer or Something Else Altogether. Such an entity is briefly entertaining as a philosophical concept but has no further utility.

Thus, the existence of any entity that can be meaningfully discussed can be evaluated by human reason. Such an evaluation may be flawed but, at an absolute minimum, the question "Does this entity exist?" can be asked.

Now could we kindly stop beating this poor dead horse and talk about something interesting?

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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26-12-2014, 12:21 AM
RE: Um, where is....
(25-12-2014 08:26 AM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  As a Fundamentalist Agnostic, I firmly believe that "nobody knows".

"Fundamentalist Agnostic?"

Sounds like fancy word for atheist to me...

"I feel as though the camera is almost a kind of voyeur in Mr. Beans life, and you just watch this bizarre man going about his life in the way that he wants to."

-Rowan Atkinson
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26-12-2014, 12:39 AM
RE: Um, where is....
(26-12-2014 12:21 AM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  
(25-12-2014 08:26 AM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  As a Fundamentalist Agnostic, I firmly believe that "nobody knows".

"Fundamentalist Agnostic?"

Sounds like fancy word for atheist to me...

Oh God. Don't misunderstand the poor boy, he'll have to write another pages long screed to explain himself and exactly why he's the cleverest human ever to grace this forum with his presence.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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26-12-2014, 03:16 AM
RE: Um, where is....
Why do I feel that BabaBozo might benefit from reading - and truly understanding - a good book on critical thinking?

So many of his arguments fall at the first post because of schoolboy mistakes in critical thinking.

Not that I am generalising, but my personal experience is that there is a strong correlation between atheism and the existence of critical thinking skills.

Just saying'...

"I don't mind being wrong...it's a time I get to learn something new..."
Me.
N.B: I routinely make edits to posts to correct grammar or spelling, or to restate a point more clearly. I only notify edits if they materially change meaning.
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