(Un)affordable Care Act
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02-11-2015, 11:14 AM
RE: (Un)affordable Care Act
(02-11-2015 08:16 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(01-11-2015 09:44 PM)Chas Wrote:  The majority of the civilized world has better social safety nets and they are doing just fine.

While that maybe be true, the tax rates are usually higher. I for one don't want to pay the higher taxes that come with better safety nets.

With a properly designed progressive tax code you wouldn't.

#sigh
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02-11-2015, 10:17 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2015 10:27 PM by Chas.)
RE: (Un)affordable Care Act
(02-11-2015 08:16 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(01-11-2015 09:44 PM)Chas Wrote:  Come join us in the real world for a change. Dodgy

The majority of the civilized world has better social safety nets and they are doing just fine.

While that maybe be true, the tax rates are usually higher. I for one don't want to pay the higher taxes that come with better safety nets.

You lack empathy. And good sense. Drinking Beverage

Why do you suppose that U.S. society is more violent, less equitable, and less happy than any other Western democracy?

By supporting an equitable, compassionate society, you protect yourself and your family, your community, your country.

And as Girly implies, the U.S. Tax Code is a travesty of unfairness and greed promulgated by special interests.
It's not the ACA that's fucking you up the ass.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-11-2015, 10:13 AM
RE: (Un)affordable Care Act
Empathy aside, US healthcare spending is way higher than in comparable countries. Dark helmet may prefer to minimise taxes and choose catastrophic coverage over comprehensive coverage but why should the American people take such a big economic and productivity hit as its current healthcare system costs compared to its competitors? Just to please people in Dark Helmet's lot?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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03-11-2015, 10:54 AM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2015 11:57 AM by Lord Dark Helmet.)
RE: (Un)affordable Care Act
After completing the application online and seeing the options, the wife and I decided to just pay the "tax."

To get a reasonable plan with semi acceptable deductible we were looking at $575 a month. Like other people our age in similar situations we're just not buying into it. We read a bunch of news articles yesterday that insurance companies are failing, state exchanges are crumbling and the whole program is basically a mess. Healthy young people like us just aren't willing to drop that much money into it. This is causing skyrocketing rates to fill the gaps caused by healthy people not buying in.

I won't be one of them.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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03-11-2015, 11:26 AM
RE: (Un)affordable Care Act
The ACA for me is actually going to help save my live, as my employer insurance plan sucks so bad that it doesn't cover what I need done (baractric surgery). I agree that health insurance is still way to expensive, as for me its 272 a month for the ACA plan I needed. I want to see the U.S. have a single payer system like the rest of the western world has.

“We can judge our progress by the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers, our willingness to embrace what is true rather than what feels good.”
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03-11-2015, 12:22 PM
RE: (Un)affordable Care Act
(03-11-2015 10:54 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  After completing the application online and seeing the options, the wife and I decided to just pay the "tax."

To get a reasonable plan with semi acceptable deductible we were looking at $575 a month. Like other people our age in similar situations we're just not buying into it. We read a bunch of news articles yesterday that insurance companies are failing, state exchanges are crumbling and the whole program is basically a mess. Healthy young people like us just aren't willing to drop that much money into it. This is causing skyrocketing rates to fill the gaps caused by healthy people not buying in.

I won't be one of them.

So you're going without insurance then?

Quote:The fee for not having health insurance in 2016

The fee is calculated 2 different ways – as a percentage of your household income, and per person. You’ll pay whichever is higher.

Percentage of income

2.5% of household income
Maximum: Total yearly premium for the national average price of a Bronze plan sold through the Marketplace
Per person

$695 per adult
$347.50 per child under 18
Maximum: $2,085



Wouldn't you be better off getting something for that money, rather than just forking it over?
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03-11-2015, 12:48 PM
RE: (Un)affordable Care Act
(03-11-2015 12:22 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(03-11-2015 10:54 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  After completing the application online and seeing the options, the wife and I decided to just pay the "tax."

To get a reasonable plan with semi acceptable deductible we were looking at $575 a month. Like other people our age in similar situations we're just not buying into it. We read a bunch of news articles yesterday that insurance companies are failing, state exchanges are crumbling and the whole program is basically a mess. Healthy young people like us just aren't willing to drop that much money into it. This is causing skyrocketing rates to fill the gaps caused by healthy people not buying in.

I won't be one of them.

So you're going without insurance then?

Quote:The fee for not having health insurance in 2016

The fee is calculated 2 different ways – as a percentage of your household income, and per person. You’ll pay whichever is higher.

Percentage of income

2.5% of household income
Maximum: Total yearly premium for the national average price of a Bronze plan sold through the Marketplace
Per person

$695 per adult
$347.50 per child under 18
Maximum: $2,085



Wouldn't you be better off getting something for that money, rather than just forking it over?

I'd rather pay $2085 in tax than $7,000 for a plan that probably won't get used. That saves me $5,000.

Maybe in 2017 when we plan to have another baby.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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03-11-2015, 05:40 PM
RE: (Un)affordable Care Act
The US healthcare system is broken and beyond repair. It needs to be scrapped and we need to start over. The idea that we need a 3rd party who manages payments of every single transaction, no matter how minor or how routine, is moronic an a surefire way to ensure the maximum amount of cost in the system. Whomever came up with this idea should be hung from a tree and beaten like a pinata until all the candy comes out of them. It's ridiculous. Insurance should be for unexpected items like surgeries, or treatments that are not routine. I shouldn't have to deal with insurance for going for a yearly check-up. During the debates on the ACA I read a few articles that said, on average, 50% of the employees in any primary care physicians office were there to deal with the insurance companies. Because every single one of them has their own forms, their own process, and you need multiple people to manage that. How much cost do you think that drives into the system?

And, then you have the whole fee-for-service model that encourages doctors to keep coming up with stuff to do because the more they do the more they get paid. Treating a patient the first visit for something simple isn't profitable. I don't know that all doctors are piling on the tests and treatments, but enough of them were that the insurance companies got into the business of challenging diagnosis. They don't do that just because they are scumbags. They do it because doctors were adding shit that was unnecessary simply to keep the money flowing.

It's a crazy system. And, it go so expensive that people that couldn't afford insurance on their own were locked out. They started using the the ER as their primary care physician and showing up with issues that hospitals who took public money had to treat. And, everyone else picked up the tab.

We need to scrap this and start over. All we did was slap some lipstick on this pig and enrich the insurance companies. The ACA just made a bad situation worse. It did nothing to fix the actual underlying problems. It's sucks and it's going to suck money out of us for years, until we collapse.

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03-11-2015, 06:25 PM
RE: (Un)affordable Care Act
(03-11-2015 12:48 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(03-11-2015 12:22 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  So you're going without insurance then?




Wouldn't you be better off getting something for that money, rather than just forking it over?

I'd rather pay $2085 in tax than $7,000 for a plan that probably won't get used. That saves me $5,000.

Maybe in 2017 when we plan to have another baby.

Hope you remain healthy until then.
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03-11-2015, 06:38 PM
RE: (Un)affordable Care Act
(03-11-2015 05:40 PM)BnW Wrote:  All we did was slap some lipstick on this pig and enrich the insurance companies. The ACA just made a bad situation worse.

Not sure I agree. More like we made a deal with the insurance companies that they will get a bigger market pool and they agreed to more regulation like we get basic minimum standards of care and they have to spend 80% of their gross on reimbursable expenses to hospitals and doctors. I got a check from Aetna for $4.86 because they didn't quite meet the 80%.

#sigh
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