Unanswered questions by Creationists
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24-02-2013, 05:08 PM
RE: Unanswered questions by Creationists
"So atheists, which would you rather have us do?: go out to the murders
and theives and preach your ideaology? Or would you rather us preach our
faith weather true or false as long as it changes lives for the better?"


Thanks for asking. I can only speak for myself but here's what I'd like. I'd like for you people to stop brutalizing your children with terrifying lies of demons and invisible men who can send them to an everlasting house of unmitigated horrors if they dare break one of your insane, contradictory, false moral commandments. I'd like you to treat your children with the respect they deserve and I'd like you to not demand undeserved respect from them based solely on the fact that at some point in time, you got lucky and "knew" someone of the opposite for two minutes.

If you'll do that, I promise, there will be no more murderers and thieves for you to try and save from your hypocrisy... with your hypocrisy.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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25-02-2013, 01:43 AM
RE: Unanswered questions by Creationists
Sooooo what your sayin is that you would rather we tell our kids that life has no hope or meaning... we are out ther preaching hope and have personaly witnessed murderers and thieves change for the better... what are you atheists doing to make a difference in society?
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25-02-2013, 03:16 AM
RE: Unanswered questions by Creationists
I'm glad you asked. Smile

(also, I've had this exact conversation verbatim about fifty times, it's like you're all part of the Borg or something...)


First of all atheism does not say there's no hope or meaning. You think it does, because you've been raised up to believe that ALL good and hope and meaning comes from god; thus imagining no god means also imagining no hope or meaning or love. Not so. You religion has hijacked the ideas of love and hope; they do not COME from your religion, they are USED by your religion.

Do you really think that atheists do not love? That we don't have hopes and dreams? Do you really need the promise of ETERNAL life to be happy? Can't you be content with the world as it is and the time you spend in it? Isn't this enough? Just this? This wonderful, complex, unfathomably awesome natural world? Why do you think it must be populated with myths and monsters for it to have meaning? There is meaning in nature and in our relationships with each other and with the things we find fun or interesting or dear to our hearts. And there is hope that we can leave this world a better place that we can found it, that we can do what we can to make things better for everyone else. You don't need a personal relationship with the purported creator of the universe to have hope.





As for the good Atheism does, churches have a bit of an unfair advantage in the numbers game, some 80% of the world being religious and all (33% being Christian), but Atheists still pull their weight when it comes to charities:
http://www.squidoo.com/Atheist-Charities

Atheism doesn't have the sheer number of people as Christianity does, so we can't fill every niche that you do, like going into prisons; most secular charities focus on the poor and hungry. Given more people (say 70% of the US population, rather than 15%) the non-religious would likely do just as much good as Christians do now.

The good you do for prison inmates? That's not because of your religion. That's because of the socialization you provide, the outreach and support that helps them to see a way to live without theft or violence. There's nothing your religion can offer that can't be offered secularly, save the empty promise of eternal life.

What next?

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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25-02-2013, 03:25 AM
RE: Unanswered questions by Creationists
(25-02-2013 01:43 AM)blasphemilius_VI Wrote:  Sooooo what your sayin is that you would rather we tell our kids that life has no hope or meaning... we are out ther preaching hope and have personaly witnessed murderers and thieves change for the better... what are you atheists doing to make a difference in society?


Wow, you have a lot yet to learn...

But Phaedrus already gave you a more than adequate answer, and you haven't stepped out of bounds enough to rouse my ire, so I'll just leave it at that...

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25-02-2013, 05:52 AM
RE: Unanswered questions by Creationists
(24-02-2013 02:55 PM)blasphemilius_VI Wrote:  So atheists, which would you rather have us do?: go out to the murders and theives and preach your ideaology? Or would you rather us preach our faith weather true or false as long as it changes lives for the better?
First of all, the premise of your comment is a false dichotomy, so already it's a stupid post.

Second, atheism has no ideology. If anything, an atheist would be using statistically, scientifically and medically reconcilable rehab methods to handle murderers and thieves with a high proven level of effectiveness.

Third, who said faith changes lives for the better?

Fourth, here's a fact that sits well with your comment: Religiously influenced schools in America that teach abstinence only have the highest teen pregnancy rates.

Changes lives for the better my arse.

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To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today.
- Isaac Asimov.
Faith means not wanting to know what is true.
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25-02-2013, 08:52 AM
Re: Unanswered questions by Creationists
Weather or not your write, makes a big difference.

So does grammar when trying to sound as though you are not just some random idiot spewing forth ignorance under the false premise that people will behave better when lied to.

Evolve
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26-02-2013, 12:24 AM
RE: Unanswered questions by Creationists
So what youguys are sayin is that individualy youguys are actually goin out there everyday to preach your "facts" to murderers... Im not talking about actual scientists that u read about or see on tv.., im talking about you individually... what do YOU do to try to change a murderous minds everyday?
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26-02-2013, 12:44 AM
RE: Unanswered questions by Creationists
(26-02-2013 12:24 AM)blasphemilius_VI Wrote:  So what youguys are sayin is that individualy youguys are actually goin out there everyday to preach your "facts" to murderers... Im not talking about actual scientists that u read about or see on tv.., im talking about you individually... what do YOU do to try to change a murderous minds everyday?

I try to convince people there is no god and afterlife, so that they will be responsible for their own actions and act accordingly. I try to teach people moral accountability. I can't think of a more morally bankrupt and hollow system than Christianity. It is a system that can be explicitly used to forgive and condone the most egregious atrocities. You can't just ask for forgiveness from your imaginary friend to make everything okay. When you die, there is no paradise for killing in the name of (or being forgiven by) your imaginary friend.

And even if I didn't, your beliefs would still be bollocks.

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26-02-2013, 01:40 AM
RE: Unanswered questions by Creationists
(26-02-2013 12:24 AM)blasphemilius_VI Wrote:  So what youguys are sayin is that individualy youguys are actually goin out there everyday to preach your "facts" to murderers... Im not talking about actual scientists that u read about or see on tv.., im talking about you individually... what do YOU do to try to change a murderous minds everyday?

Really? Seriously. That's what you're going with?

What are you doing to help treat childhood leukemia? What are you doing to help water quality issues in Sub-Saharan Africa? What are you doing to help improve the lives of children in hospitals? What are you doing to provide housing for the homeless?


Picking one activity and saying, "Well why are you doing this one? Huh? Huh?" is childish. I can't say I expected better, but I had certainly hoped you were better than that.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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26-02-2013, 04:56 AM
RE: Unanswered questions by Creationists
(09-08-2011 12:32 PM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  As I've mentioned before, I am active on a history forum. There are a small handful of diehard creationists there that constantly try to lecture us nasty atheists / theistic evolutionists on how evolution is wrong. One of the guys there always preaches that the various methods used to date geological layers or fossils are flawed. He is one of those "transitional fossils have never been found because they do not exist" types. Anyway, I decided to ask the following questions for our creationist friends:

Quote:1. If these scientists are wrong, why do they continue to participate in their field of study?

2. Why do other scientists support their findings?

3. Do you think these scientists or their colleagues know that they are wrong?

4. If so, what possible merit could they get out of falsely supporting evolution?

For the last question, I've heard some religions people claim that it is a worldwide conspiracy perpetrated by Satan, or it's to lead people away from faith so they can sin. What are your thoughts on the issue?

Not one of them have attempted to answer these. This is really surprising because they are quick to reply to any thread on evolution. Other people have noticed this as well. Someone jokingly asked: "What happened to the true Christians on this forum?"
Cant these 4 questions, happily substitute the words science for religion and creationism and evolution and attempt to make the same point?

Even with that aside, I fail to see why the majority of scientists agree is any more compelling than the agreement to be found (if you look in broad enough terms) amongst the religious.

Were science is compelling is a scientist can demonstrate, were religion is less compelling is that in a lot of its claims cant.

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