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13-01-2016, 07:56 PM
RE: Underailable Thread
(13-01-2016 06:53 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-01-2016 06:05 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Edit with final answer:

I guess I always believe that there was a God. Although as a child I did not know what it was.

You still don't know what it is - you only believe. Drinking Beverage
That is a true statement
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13-01-2016, 07:57 PM
Underailable Thread
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13-01-2016, 08:06 PM
Underailable Thread
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13-01-2016, 08:09 PM
RE: Underailable Thread
(13-01-2016 06:33 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(13-01-2016 06:02 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  One key indicator is who witnessed the occurrence that is being written. The fewer the witnesses the less literal I tend to get. This would be in order of figurative to literal.

1. The creation and Job (Satan and God meeting)would be an example of where it could be most figurative because there were absolutely no witnesses to the event. Not even the author.

2. If there is only one witness and the witness is not the supposed author. The 40 days Jesus spent in the wilderness would be such a case. Yet it could still be possible that Jesus may have told his deciples about it.

3. If the author was the only witness then it could be viewed in a more literal sense but not by much. Example would be Moses on Mount Sinai and Revelation.

4. Multiple witness where the author supposed author was not present. In this case, if the author was not present, I would assume after talking to the witnesses he could have filled in the blanks. The account of the cruxifixion according to the gospel of Matthew is an example. Mathews was not present but he supposedly wrote about it using the testimony of others.

5. Finally, multiple witnesses where the author was one of the witnesses. Pentecost, last supper, ect.

So when there are inconsistencies in the gospels this is the formula I personally use to come to my own personal conclusion on what would be more accurate. I would favor John's account of the Crucifixion over Matthew or Luke ect.

Interesting, thanks. I would say that the biggest flaw I see in that is the presumption that the events actually happened and that the witnesses existed. Nick Carraway wrote about his experiences with Gatsby, many of which were witnessed by large numbers of other people. If we had lost the identity of the real author, like we have for the gospels, we could easily assume it was an actual biography. With no confirmation of who actually wrote a story we need external evidence to determine if it is an accurate portrayal, an embellished account based on real events, or pure fiction.

For example, with regard to the example of Moses on Sinai, had large numbers of Hebrews spent that much time in the region then we'd expect to find archaeological evidence of that. Such evidence would lend credence to at least some parts of the story. The total lack of evidence, despite searches for it, indicates that the Exodus story is most probably almost entirely fictional.

Matthew's gospel takes us back to Nick Carroway's experiences with Gatsby. Unless we know that "Matthew" existed and wrote the story we can't tell it from a completely fictionalized account. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me to say that Matthew used the testimony of others unless we have reason to believe that the events happened and that Matthew was the actual author and was trying to record historical events.

The same is true for things like the last supper where there are supposedly multiple witnesses. We don't have multiple accounts that pretty much line up, we have one story that was edited and retold (Matthew using Mark, Luke using Matthew, John using acid) and even then the order and nature of events is quite different and seem to show the different authors feeling free to alter it to suit their goals. We don't have corroborating evidence that the core events took place at all.

You are assuming the fact of the event and the existence of the witnesses and then looking at the text and saying that it confirms that the event took place and that the multiple witnesses support that. I don't see that you ever have anything except an unknown.
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13-01-2016, 09:19 PM
RE: Underailable Thread
Resistance is futile. Shrug off that god belief. Believe me, it ain't easy. I did it at age 53, and did not enjoy the process, but had to follow my logic. I know that it will be painful with the believing wife, yes, I do.
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13-01-2016, 09:35 PM
RE: Underailable Thread



[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
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13-01-2016, 09:37 PM
RE: Underailable Thread



[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
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14-01-2016, 05:56 AM
RE: Underailable Thread
(13-01-2016 05:15 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(13-01-2016 05:04 PM)Nishi Karano Kaze Wrote:  So how big nipples do one need to have your rep?

*Processing info on poster*

Oh wait. . . Girly, I don't want to know.

This is a start.

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Thanks. . . I think.
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14-01-2016, 06:01 AM
RE: Underailable Thread
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NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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14-01-2016, 06:18 AM
RE: Underailable Thread
(14-01-2016 05:56 AM)Nishi Karano Kaze Wrote:  
(13-01-2016 05:15 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  This is a start.

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Thanks. . . I think.
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