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17-01-2016, 05:28 AM
RE: Underailable Thread
It's been fun but now the time has come for me to get on with my life.

Good health and good luck you all, see you all in the other life...
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17-01-2016, 10:32 AM
RE: Underailable Thread
(17-01-2016 05:28 AM)Thewonderer Wrote:  It's been fun but now the time has come for me to get on with my life.

Good health and good luck you all, see you all in the other life...


God speed the wonderer.




#sigh
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17-01-2016, 01:20 PM
RE: Underailable Thread
I was on the Christian forum on a discussion about Ghosts. This was one of the posts I thought you would be amused with. Enjoy.

I find it amusing that those that 'believe' in ghost are the ones that 'see' them.

I don't believe in ghosts. I believe that people have 'made up stories' about them. That people may have 'seen things' that they can't explain, but there is nothing in the Bible that speaks of 'ghosts' in the manner that is the subject of this discussion. Not one word in the Bible about 'ghosts'. The Holy Ghost is not referenced as a literal physical presence. Only one reference to the 'tongues of fire' which I have never heard 'anyone' reference in regards to 'ghosts'.

So, like Bigfoot, it always seems to be those that 'believe' in such things that 'see' such things and present the 'stories' about them.

I have personally 'never' witnessed any ghosts. But then, I don't believe in ghosts so I'm not likely to 'see' something that I can't explain and then label it a 'ghost'.

The human mind is an amazing 'thing'. Under certain circumstances, it is able to conjure up all kinds of images that are often believed to be 'real' when in fact, they are merely images in one's mind. Drugs, lack of sleep, lack of nutrition, fear, stress, all these and many other factors can have an effect on the mind. The mind is what controls our sight, smell, all our senses. So when under different stressful situations, we are likely to have our minds play all kinds of 'tricks' on our senses. including visual hallucinations.

The Bible tells us that there will be those that choose to believe in 'lies'. And that God Himself will offer 'strong delusion' so that they will believe the lies they choose to follow. But note the word 'delusion'. Delusions are not 'reality', but exactly what the word denotes: delusions.

It is my belief that one is capable of bringing about 'tricks' of the mind by what they choose to believe. If you have the faith of a mustard seed you could move a mountain. This doesn't say a word about 'faith in God'. But merely 'faith itself'. That means that if you 'want' to see something bad enough, it is likely that the mind is capable of delivering under the right circumstances.

Blessings,

MEC
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17-01-2016, 01:21 PM
RE: Underailable Thread
This was my reply to said post:

This is an interesting comment because it is exactly what atheist believe about theists. But that is a topic for another thread. It's a good post, I just thought there was an interesting connection.
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17-01-2016, 01:58 PM
RE: Underailable Thread
(17-01-2016 01:20 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I was on the Christian forum on a discussion about Ghosts. This was one of the posts I thought you would be amused with. Enjoy.

I find it amusing that those that 'believe' in ghost are the ones that 'see' them.

I don't believe in ghosts. I believe that people have 'made up stories' about them. That people may have 'seen things' that they can't explain, but there is nothing in the Bible that speaks of 'ghosts' in the manner that is the subject of this discussion. Not one word in the Bible about 'ghosts'. The Holy Ghost is not referenced as a literal physical presence. Only one reference to the 'tongues of fire' which I have never heard 'anyone' reference in regards to 'ghosts'.

So, like Bigfoot, it always seems to be those that 'believe' in such things that 'see' such things and present the 'stories' about them.

I have personally 'never' witnessed any ghosts. But then, I don't believe in ghosts so I'm not likely to 'see' something that I can't explain and then label it a 'ghost'.

The human mind is an amazing 'thing'. Under certain circumstances, it is able to conjure up all kinds of images that are often believed to be 'real' when in fact, they are merely images in one's mind. Drugs, lack of sleep, lack of nutrition, fear, stress, all these and many other factors can have an effect on the mind. The mind is what controls our sight, smell, all our senses. So when under different stressful situations, we are likely to have our minds play all kinds of 'tricks' on our senses. including visual hallucinations.

The Bible tells us that there will be those that choose to believe in 'lies'. And that God Himself will offer 'strong delusion' so that they will believe the lies they choose to follow. But note the word 'delusion'. Delusions are not 'reality', but exactly what the word denotes: delusions.

It is my belief that one is capable of bringing about 'tricks' of the mind by what they choose to believe. If you have the faith of a mustard seed you could move a mountain. This doesn't say a word about 'faith in God'. But merely 'faith itself'. That means that if you 'want' to see something bad enough, it is likely that the mind is capable of delivering under the right circumstances.

Blessings,

MEC

But if God will offer up delusions, how do you know what is real in the Bible and what isn't?

Isn't that the same thing as a person saying to you: "I'm going to tell you various things--some of which will be true, some of which will be false--but it's up to *you* to figure out/separate truth from lies. And if you are unsuccessful, I will be extremely pissed at you and will not bless you and will torment and condemn you for eternity.

I'm assuming this is what MEC is referring to: 2 Thessalonians 2

"Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness."

I get that the gist of the passage is saying to trust God's Word (i.e. the Bible) and not what others tell you to be true. But the Bible was written by *others.* Others decided what to include in the Bible and what not to include in the Bible. There were false prophets mentioned in the Bible and also some of God's faves like Ezekiel got some of God's prophecies wrong. There are also numerous contradictions in the bible and supernatural feats. There were also others running around during this time period (which is what this passage is alluding to, imo) claiming to have supernatural powers. Jesus was not the only one to say he could perform miracles and such. Others were successful at performing magic tricks in front of others as well. Citation: Richard Carrier's Kooks and Quacks of the Roman Empire (available online if you are interested).
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17-01-2016, 05:15 PM
RE: Underailable Thread
(17-01-2016 01:58 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(17-01-2016 01:20 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I was on the Christian forum on a discussion about Ghosts. This was one of the posts I thought you would be amused with. Enjoy.

I find it amusing that those that 'believe' in ghost are the ones that 'see' them.

I don't believe in ghosts. I believe that people have 'made up stories' about them. That people may have 'seen things' that they can't explain, but there is nothing in the Bible that speaks of 'ghosts' in the manner that is the subject of this discussion. Not one word in the Bible about 'ghosts'. The Holy Ghost is not referenced as a literal physical presence. Only one reference to the 'tongues of fire' which I have never heard 'anyone' reference in regards to 'ghosts'.

So, like Bigfoot, it always seems to be those that 'believe' in such things that 'see' such things and present the 'stories' about them.

I have personally 'never' witnessed any ghosts. But then, I don't believe in ghosts so I'm not likely to 'see' something that I can't explain and then label it a 'ghost'.

The human mind is an amazing 'thing'. Under certain circumstances, it is able to conjure up all kinds of images that are often believed to be 'real' when in fact, they are merely images in one's mind. Drugs, lack of sleep, lack of nutrition, fear, stress, all these and many other factors can have an effect on the mind. The mind is what controls our sight, smell, all our senses. So when under different stressful situations, we are likely to have our minds play all kinds of 'tricks' on our senses. including visual hallucinations.

The Bible tells us that there will be those that choose to believe in 'lies'. And that God Himself will offer 'strong delusion' so that they will believe the lies they choose to follow. But note the word 'delusion'. Delusions are not 'reality', but exactly what the word denotes: delusions.

It is my belief that one is capable of bringing about 'tricks' of the mind by what they choose to believe. If you have the faith of a mustard seed you could move a mountain. This doesn't say a word about 'faith in God'. But merely 'faith itself'. That means that if you 'want' to see something bad enough, it is likely that the mind is capable of delivering under the right circumstances.

Blessings,

MEC

But if God will offer up delusions, how do you know what is real in the Bible and what isn't?

Isn't that the same thing as a person saying to you: "I'm going to tell you various things--some of which will be true, some of which will be false--but it's up to *you* to figure out/separate truth from lies. And if you are unsuccessful, I will be extremely pissed at you and will not bless you and will torment and condemn you for eternity.

I'm assuming this is what MEC is referring to: 2 Thessalonians 2

"Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness."

I get that the gist of the passage is saying to trust God's Word (i.e. the Bible) and not what others tell you to be true. But the Bible was written by *others.* Others decided what to include in the Bible and what not to include in the Bible. There were false prophets mentioned in the Bible and also some of God's faves like Ezekiel got some of God's prophecies wrong. There are also numerous contradictions in the bible and supernatural feats. There were also others running around during this time period (which is what this passage is alluding to, imo) claiming to have supernatural powers. Jesus was not the only one to say he could perform miracles and such. Others were successful at performing magic tricks in front of others as well. Citation: Richard Carrier's Kooks and Quacks of the Roman Empire (available online if you are interested).
I don't know. I just shook my head.
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17-01-2016, 06:02 PM
RE: Underailable Thread
Had a relaxing weekend, I wish it wasn't coming to an end. Sad

Hope u are all doing well! Heart

Be true to yourself. Heart
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17-01-2016, 06:36 PM
RE: Underailable Thread
(17-01-2016 01:20 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I was on the Christian forum on a discussion about Ghosts. This was one of the posts I thought you would be amused with. Enjoy.

I find it amusing that those that 'believe' in ghost are the ones that 'see' them.

I don't believe in ghosts. I believe that people have 'made up stories' about them. That people may have 'seen things' that they can't explain, but there is nothing in the Bible that speaks of 'ghosts' in the manner that is the subject of this discussion. Not one word in the Bible about 'ghosts'. The Holy Ghost is not referenced as a literal physical presence. Only one reference to the 'tongues of fire' which I have never heard 'anyone' reference in regards to 'ghosts'.

So, like Bigfoot, it always seems to be those that 'believe' in such things that 'see' such things and present the 'stories' about them.

I have personally 'never' witnessed any ghosts. But then, I don't believe in ghosts so I'm not likely to 'see' something that I can't explain and then label it a 'ghost'.

The human mind is an amazing 'thing'. Under certain circumstances, it is able to conjure up all kinds of images that are often believed to be 'real' when in fact, they are merely images in one's mind. Drugs, lack of sleep, lack of nutrition, fear, stress, all these and many other factors can have an effect on the mind. The mind is what controls our sight, smell, all our senses. So when under different stressful situations, we are likely to have our minds play all kinds of 'tricks' on our senses. including visual hallucinations.

The Bible tells us that there will be those that choose to believe in 'lies'. And that God Himself will offer 'strong delusion' so that they will believe the lies they choose to follow. But note the word 'delusion'. Delusions are not 'reality', but exactly what the word denotes: delusions.

It is my belief that one is capable of bringing about 'tricks' of the mind by what they choose to believe. If you have the faith of a mustard seed you could move a mountain. This doesn't say a word about 'faith in God'. But merely 'faith itself'. That means that if you 'want' to see something bad enough, it is likely that the mind is capable of delivering under the right circumstances.

Blessings,

MEC

This applies equally to gods. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-01-2016, 08:03 PM
RE: Underailable Thread
(17-01-2016 06:36 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(17-01-2016 01:20 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I was on the Christian forum on a discussion about Ghosts. This was one of the posts I thought you would be amused with. Enjoy.

I find it amusing that those that 'believe' in ghost are the ones that 'see' them.

I don't believe in ghosts. I believe that people have 'made up stories' about them. That people may have 'seen things' that they can't explain, but there is nothing in the Bible that speaks of 'ghosts' in the manner that is the subject of this discussion. Not one word in the Bible about 'ghosts'. The Holy Ghost is not referenced as a literal physical presence. Only one reference to the 'tongues of fire' which I have never heard 'anyone' reference in regards to 'ghosts'.

So, like Bigfoot, it always seems to be those that 'believe' in such things that 'see' such things and present the 'stories' about them.

I have personally 'never' witnessed any ghosts. But then, I don't believe in ghosts so I'm not likely to 'see' something that I can't explain and then label it a 'ghost'.

The human mind is an amazing 'thing'. Under certain circumstances, it is able to conjure up all kinds of images that are often believed to be 'real' when in fact, they are merely images in one's mind. Drugs, lack of sleep, lack of nutrition, fear, stress, all these and many other factors can have an effect on the mind. The mind is what controls our sight, smell, all our senses. So when under different stressful situations, we are likely to have our minds play all kinds of 'tricks' on our senses. including visual hallucinations.

The Bible tells us that there will be those that choose to believe in 'lies'. And that God Himself will offer 'strong delusion' so that they will believe the lies they choose to follow. But note the word 'delusion'. Delusions are not 'reality', but exactly what the word denotes: delusions.

It is my belief that one is capable of bringing about 'tricks' of the mind by what they choose to believe. If you have the faith of a mustard seed you could move a mountain. This doesn't say a word about 'faith in God'. But merely 'faith itself'. That means that if you 'want' to see something bad enough, it is likely that the mind is capable of delivering under the right circumstances.

Blessings,

MEC

This applies equally to gods. Drinking Beverage
I mentioned that.
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18-01-2016, 05:13 AM
RE: Underailable Thread
(17-01-2016 08:03 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(17-01-2016 06:36 PM)Chas Wrote:  This applies equally to gods. Drinking Beverage
I mentioned that.
My bible knowledge is poor but didn't Saul visit a witch and resort to summoning some dead dudes spirit ? That's kinda ghost related surely?
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