Unexplained "spiritual" experiences
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22-04-2015, 12:09 PM
RE: Unexplained "spiritual" experiences
(22-04-2015 11:57 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I said he was speaking meaphorically.

Okay, so why do you believe that? I see very little reason to believe he meant it metaphorically, but clearly you think this is the case, and I'd be curious to hear as to why you think this?
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22-04-2015, 01:20 PM
RE: Unexplained "spiritual" experiences
(22-04-2015 12:03 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Your defintion is more align with the meaning of strong evidence, rather than evidence itself. In fact your definition wouldn't even work with qualifiers used to speak of weak evidence. In fact it would mean that "weak evidence" is not evidence at all. That's like saying an absent father, is not a father at all, or an illegitimate child, is not really a child.

It's "more in line", or "more aligned", not more "align". Why would I respond to questions about the use of language to someone who is unable to even use English correctly ?

(22-04-2015 12:03 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Let's translate what you mean here: "There is no strong evidence, the sort that would pass the muster of being scientifically rigorous, the testable, repeatable sort, that would convince you that this was the case. "

Let's not. I said what I meant. There is NO evidence that someone who CLAIMS they heard a voice that no one else heard, actually heard anything. All there is is a claim. A claim is not evidence. YOu may call it so, but even your definition says it's "weak".

(22-04-2015 12:03 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  But let's consider something else here. Are you suggesting that Rev. King meant it metaphorically? Why do you believe that? Is it because he seems too sharp of a mind, too good of an orator, too educated of a person, to be hearing voices? Why do you consider it a metaphor? A metaphor for what exactly?

A metaphor for "I came to understand God was saying (or *trying to tell me*) something". Are you THAT retarded or unfamiliar with "religion-speak" ?

(22-04-2015 12:03 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Are you basing this view of yours on evidence?

Yes. Obviously I am far more familiar with religious people than you are.
Your inane questions are more proof, as I have said before, that you NEED to appear to be able to engage in these endless, mindless bullshit arguments over nothing, saying nothing. Before you say that people are hearing the voice of a god, you must demonstrate there is a god. You have not even begun to start that.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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22-04-2015, 01:32 PM (This post was last modified: 22-04-2015 01:38 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: Unexplained "spiritual" experiences
(22-04-2015 01:20 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  A metaphor for "I came to understand God was saying (or *trying to tell me*) something".

No, there's nothing metaphorical here:

"early on a sleepless morning in January, 1956, rationality left me. . . .Almost out of nowhere I heard a voice that morning saying to me, “Preach the gospel, stand up for truth, stand up for righteousness. Since that morning I can stand up without fear. So I’m not afraid of anybody this morning." -MLK

I'm not sure how you take "almost out of nowhere I heard a voice that morning" as a metaphor, when it seems he's being quiet literal in his description, which is quite evident by the fact that he acknowledges that his "rationality left" him.

But clearly there's some reason as to why you assume it's a metaphor? Is it because only an uneducated and childish mind, would believe it was an external voice, and Rev. King was hardly this?
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22-04-2015, 01:42 PM
RE: Unexplained "spiritual" experiences
(22-04-2015 01:32 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-04-2015 01:20 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  A metaphor for "I came to understand God was saying (or *trying to tell me*) something".

No, there's nothing metaphorical here:

"early on a sleepless morning in January, 1956, rationality left me. . . .Almost out of nowhere I heard a voice that morning saying to me, “Preach the gospel, stand up for truth, stand up for righteousness. Since that morning I can stand up without fear. So I’m not afraid of anybody this morning." -MLK

I'm not sure how you take "almost out of nowhere I heard a voice that morning" as a metaphor, when it seems he's being quiet literal in his description, which is quite evident by the fact that he acknowledges that his "rationality left" him.

But clearly there's some reason as to why you assume it's a metaphor? Is it because only an uneducated and childish mind, would believe it was an external voice, and Rev. King was hardly this?

No one hears something "out of nowhere". "Out of nowhere" is metaphor.
You have (as per your usual) taken an argument about evidence, down an irrelavant side-track, as that's what you do, and tried to make it seem I was saying something about King I was not, as that's what you needed to do to run this off the rails, and start an argument over nothing. I'm done here. Have fun fapping with yourself over nothing. There IS no evedence that he actually heard a voice. You are a troll.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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22-04-2015, 01:47 PM
RE: Unexplained "spiritual" experiences
(22-04-2015 01:42 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(22-04-2015 01:32 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  No, there's nothing metaphorical here:

"early on a sleepless morning in January, 1956, rationality left me. . . .Almost out of nowhere I heard a voice that morning saying to me, “Preach the gospel, stand up for truth, stand up for righteousness. Since that morning I can stand up without fear. So I’m not afraid of anybody this morning." -MLK

I'm not sure how you take "almost out of nowhere I heard a voice that morning" as a metaphor, when it seems he's being quiet literal in his description, which is quite evident by the fact that he acknowledges that his "rationality left" him.

But clearly there's some reason as to why you assume it's a metaphor? Is it because only an uneducated and childish mind, would believe it was an external voice, and Rev. King was hardly this?

No one hears something "out of nowhere". "Out of nowhere" is metaphor.
You have (as per your usual) taken an argument about evidence, down an irrelavant side-track, as that's what you do, and tried to make it seem I was saying something about King I was not, as that's what you needed to do to run this off the rails, and start an argument over nothing. I'm done here. Have fun fapping with yourself over nothing. There IS no evedence that he actually heard a voice. You are a troll.

Now, you're being dishonest. I'm gonna repeat the quote again:

""early on a sleepless morning in January, 1956, rationality left me. . . .Almost out of nowhere I heard a voice that morning saying to me, “Preach the gospel, stand up for truth, stand up for righteousness. Since that morning I can stand up without fear. So I’m not afraid of anybody this morning." -MLK"

Rev. King wasn't speaking of some metaphorical voice he heard that morning, he was speaking of an actual voice that he heard that morning, one that caused his own rationality to leave him, or in other words one that he couldn't explain away.

But for some reason, you feel the need to deny the obvious here, and appeal to it being metaphorical when clearly it was not.
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22-04-2015, 01:54 PM
RE: Unexplained "spiritual" experiences
(22-04-2015 01:47 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-04-2015 01:42 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No one hears something "out of nowhere". "Out of nowhere" is metaphor.
You have (as per your usual) taken an argument about evidence, down an irrelavant side-track, as that's what you do, and tried to make it seem I was saying something about King I was not, as that's what you needed to do to run this off the rails, and start an argument over nothing. I'm done here. Have fun fapping with yourself over nothing. There IS no evedence that he actually heard a voice. You are a troll.

Now, you're being dishonest. I'm gonna repeat the quote again:

""early on a sleepless morning in January, 1956, rationality left me. . . .Almost out of nowhere I heard a voice that morning saying to me, “Preach the gospel, stand up for truth, stand up for righteousness. Since that morning I can stand up without fear. So I’m not afraid of anybody this morning." -MLK"

Rev. King wasn't speaking of some metaphorical voice he heard that morning, he was speaking of an actual voice that he heard that morning, one that caused his own rationality to leave him, or in other words one that he couldn't explain away.

But for some reason, you feel the need to deny the obvious here, and appeal to it being metaphorical when clearly it was not.

He said FIRST, "rationality left me". Anything he says AFTER that is irrational. He admitted it. It is YOU who are dishonest. There IS no evidence that people who claim an immaginary being talks to them actually "hear" anything. It's the same thing as when people in the Bible claimed to "see" something, and it's a metaphor for "come to understand". I get these are hard things for a childish uneducated person to understnad.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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22-04-2015, 02:01 PM
RE: Unexplained "spiritual" experiences
(22-04-2015 01:54 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  He said FIRST, "rationality left me". Anything he says AFTER that is irrational.
He admitted it.

SO it's clear to you now that he wasn't speaking of a metaphorical voice? That he in fact heard a voice, even if you want to explain that away as some auditory hallucination?

Quote:It is YOU who are dishonest. There IS no evidence that people who claim an immaginary being talks to them actually "hear" anything.

Except of course, to those individuals who actually hear something, that you might explain away as some auditory hallucination, or something of the sort.
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22-04-2015, 02:14 PM
RE: Unexplained "spiritual" experiences
(22-04-2015 02:01 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-04-2015 01:54 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  He said FIRST, "rationality left me". Anything he says AFTER that is irrational.
He admitted it.

SO it's clear to you now that he wasn't speaking of a metaphorical voice? That he in fact heard a voice, even if you want to explain that away as some auditory hallucination?

There is no way for you to determine if he heard a voice or not. It is not a matter of fact.

Quote:
Quote:It is YOU who are dishonest. There IS no evidence that people who claim an immaginary being talks to them actually "hear" anything.

Except of course, to those individuals who actually hear something, that you might explain away as some auditory hallucination, or something of the sort.

Regardless of him believing he heard a voice or not, his reporting that he heard a voice does not qualify as evidence of it because its truth cannot be confirmed.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-04-2015, 02:18 PM
RE: Unexplained "spiritual" experiences
I think people selectively (and perhaps not entirely consciously) shape their recollections of events over time to reflect what they like to think occurred.
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22-04-2015, 02:22 PM
RE: Unexplained "spiritual" experiences
So true! Lots to be said for the power of suggestion.
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